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Johnny Hincapie

Immigrant Archive Project
Johnny Hincapie, a Colombian immigrant from Queens, NY was wrongfully convicted of murder in the highly publicized 1990 subway slaying of a Utah tourist named Brian Watkins. Johnny served 25 years in prison before his release and eventual exoneration. This is his story.
Show transcript
00:00
My innocence is real.
00:02
My innocence meant everything to me.
00:04
And I'm telling you that I spent 25 years in prison for something
00:09
that I didn't do.
00:16
Johnny, let's begin the way we do with everyone with your name
00:18
and nationality.
00:20
My name is Johnny Caper and I am from Medellin, Colombia.
00:25
I used to live in Bay Terrace Queens.
00:27
So it was a predominantly uh Irish Italian Jewish neighborhood
00:31
and I my family and I were like the only Colombians in that neighborhood
00:34
at the time, but it was a residential neighborhood and it was
00:38
a quiet neighborhood and uh going to school over there was
00:42
different from going to school or being raised in other neighborhoods
00:46
in New York City.
00:48
Um The eighties was a memorable era for me because New York
00:53
City at the time wasn't the best um place to walk around and
00:58
even to take a subway, uh crime rate was very high, especially
01:02
due to the crack epidemic.
01:05
Uh But nonetheless, um I was raised with the moral values that
01:09
my family instilled in me and my younger brother that we had
01:14
to work hard to gain anything that we wanted to achieve and
01:20
that was if we were gonna graduate from high school and we were
01:24
gonna receive a car or vacation or a high school graduation
01:27
party, that was the whole objective that we were going to look
01:32
forward to with life as well.
01:34
Whatever professional career that I was going to choose,
01:38
I had to work hard in order to receive those rewards.
01:41
So my family made it very clear that life wasn't gonna be easy
01:45
and nothing was gonna be handed to us.
01:47
But they were very supportive of us and they made sure that
01:51
we understood that.
01:52
And what did your parents do for a living professionally?
01:55
Uh My mother was an interior designer and my father, he uh had
01:59
a, a office with a travel agency in real estate and your home
02:05
life.
02:06
What was that like my home life?
02:09
Uh me and my younger brother, uh going to school, um playing
02:14
video games, playing basketball, baseball.
02:16
I was a huge baseball and soccer, uh fanatic.
02:20
So, um I grew up uh playing that a lot in the summer time and in
02:24
the winter time, you know, in winter time, I didn't like the
02:27
cold at all as much as I love New York.
02:29
I didn't like the cold at all.
02:30
So, um I used to go out just to shovel snow to try to make money
02:35
off of that.
02:35
But other than that, I used to stay inside.
02:38
I understand music was an important thing for you growing
02:42
up?
02:43
Yes, it was.
02:44
Um Growing up in New York, I discovered what it was to be a B boy
02:48
and I became a B boy and that was a big thing.
02:51
That was a big thing.
02:52
And so back in 1984 when break dancing was at its peak in all
02:59
of the United States.
03:00
And it was very, very big in New York City.
03:04
I learned how to break dance.
03:06
And I remember me, my brother and my friends in front of our
03:10
garage with a cardboard box uh doing the back spin trying to
03:14
do the windmill, you know, popping and everything.
03:17
So I grew up as a, as a dancer.
03:18
But um as I became older, as a teenager, I got into D jing and
03:24
I first uh landed a job at a teen nightclub as a teen promoter
03:32
which was the weirdest thing.
03:35
My parents only allowed me to go there like once a month.
03:39
But eventually um I started to be good at it and uh got to get
03:45
other jobs and other different nightclubs around New York
03:48
City.
03:48
And at the end of the day, I just wanted it to make it in the industry
03:53
in the entertainment industry.
03:55
You saw that as a, as a viable option for you professionally
03:59
Yeah, because growing up, uh my father always wanted to be
04:02
a movie actor.
04:03
He came to the United States because he wanted to be an actor
04:05
And he never got to fulfill that dream.
04:08
And uh I think it was embedded in me.
04:11
So I had other uh goals of like being a businessman or, or a doctor
04:16
but definitely I wanted to be an actor and, and, and working
04:21
in, in the music industry, working in that, in, in that entertainment
04:24
industry, being a DJ, a dancer and, and meeting so many other
04:28
celebrities at that time, which was for me, freestyle music
04:32
house music.
04:33
Um I said, you know, I looked at myself as being the male version
04:38
of J Lo because that's how, that's how J Lo.
04:43
That's how she popped up.
04:44
That's how she made herself successful.
04:46
She was a dancer in living color and next thing you know, she's
04:49
an actress, she's a dancer, she's making music and that and
04:52
and I didn't know J Lo at the time, I didn't know who she was
04:55
but in hindsight, that's how I wanted to make my living.
04:59
That's how I was trying to uh get known and be successful.
05:03
And I never did.
05:05
Sounds to me like you had a pretty fun gig in high school.
05:09
If you were a teen promoter, you were basically hustling your
05:12
friends to come out to the nightclubs and come party with you
05:16
That's what it sounds like.
05:17
Um which is a pretty good gig for a high school kid.
05:20
Yeah.
05:21
Yes and no, because the high school that I went to um in Bayside
05:27
I went to Bayside high school.
05:28
So it's like not everybody was used to going out to clubs or
05:32
anything like that.
05:33
Every, you know, every everybody was used to doing something
05:36
different.
05:37
Um And for the most part, a lot of my friends in Bay Terrace at
05:42
that time were very, very focused on college.
05:45
And so was I um I applied to go to Saint John's University.
05:50
Never made it because of what happened to me.
05:52
But um so another portion of my friends, they were into going
05:57
out to clubs and they liked that lifestyle, but I never saw
06:02
myself as staying, working in clubs.
06:04
So I, I don't wanna be misconstrued and saying that I wanted
06:09
a lifestyle of just working in clubs my whole entire life.
06:13
I was just trying to meet people and trying to see if there was
06:16
something that they saw because I was offering myself in so
06:20
many different ways of how I can move up the ladder.
06:24
So yes, I mean, that was, that was a thing back then.
06:26
That was a popular, you know, if you were working at a nightclub
06:31
if you had access to, you know, bringing people into a club
06:35
or promoting a club, that was uh that was basically being the
06:38
high school quarterback back then.
06:40
Yeah.
06:40
And um I used to like going to clubs and I couldn't help it.
06:45
I'm not gonna lie.
06:46
I couldn't help it.
06:47
Uh I was into the music and because like I said, I grew up as a
06:51
break dancer, I used to love dancing and in the house music
06:55
was already popular at that time.
06:57
So if you're a promoter at a teen night, you know, and you're
07:02
not gonna be just standing around, you already did what you
07:04
had to do to get everybody inside the club.
07:06
So I used to dance and have fun and then go home.
07:10
So um yeah, it was, it was a, it was a pretty bit exciting.
07:14
I'm sure it was, I'm sure it was now as I understand and correct
07:18
me if I'm wrong.
07:19
There was a uh a DJ that you knew or at least knew of that on a fateful
07:25
September 3rd, 1990 was throwing a party at Roseland if I'm
07:30
not mistaken.
07:31
Um walk me through how that impacted what happened that night
07:38
Ok.
07:38
So DJ was a very popular DJ at the time.
07:43
His name was John Gy Rivera.
07:45
He used to DJ in a lot of uh clubs in New York City.
07:49
The most DJ s that were known back then were um little Louis
07:54
Vega uh um Ricardo, Roman.
07:59
Ricardo.
08:00
Those guys are all still household names all these years later
08:03
Those names still.
08:05
Exactly.
08:05
So he was uh having his birthday bash at Roseland and a lot of
08:10
my friends were like, hey, listen, we're going to Roseland
08:13
Why don't you come out with us?
08:15
And it just happened to be like at that moment between the summer
08:20
uh, between July and September, I was already, like, really
08:25
focusing on college.
08:26
I was making a lot of changes in my life.
08:28
So, although I was doing my promoting in the clubs, I said,
08:31
you know what, uh, September's coming around, uh, I gotta
08:35
get my act together and a lot of my friends hadn't seen me in
08:38
a while.
08:40
So I said, why don't you come out with us?
08:41
I was like, ok, you know, I'll go out with you guys.
08:44
What I didn't know is that there were so many other people that
08:48
they invited and a lot of people that I did not know because
08:52
it was like, you invite your friends and I don't know, your
08:54
friends and your friends invited some other friends and I
08:56
don't know them either.
08:57
So at the end of the night, there were a bunch of people that
08:59
didn't know each other.
09:00
So it wasn't just your crew of guys that you hung out with.
09:04
This thing was just growing exponentially.
09:06
Exactly.
09:07
And you guys decide to meet up where?
09:11
So we decided to meet up at the train station in Queens.
09:15
And uh we which I'm sorry, which, which train station?
09:18
74th Street in Roosevelt Avenue?
09:20
Ok.
09:21
So you guys meet up there?
09:22
What time?
09:24
Five, early in the day?
09:26
No, it was, it was in the evening, I would say somewhere.
09:29
I, I don't remember exactly about eight or nine o'clock.
09:32
Somewhere around that.
09:33
So it's later at night.
09:35
And you're looking at a crew of how many guys show up to this
09:39
when I got to the train station because I had to take the bus
09:42
from Bay Towers to take the train in main street, flushing
09:46
the seven train to then transfer to the train in 74th street
09:51
to meet them.
09:52
So I had a, I had a train ride because II I didn't live where everybody
09:56
else lived.
09:57
So when I met them, there was like about 30 40 50 people there
10:02
And you knew how many of these guys I knew a good 1213.
10:09
It because there was a few guys and girls.
10:11
Right.
10:12
Right.
10:12
Right.
10:13
And what was the atmosphere with this crew?
10:15
Once, once you showed up, everybody was positive everybody
10:19
was lively, you know, um, everybody was just like, hey, what's
10:24
going on?
10:25
Um, didn't seem to be out of hand.
10:27
No, no, no, everybody was basically with their own people
10:31
that they knew.
10:32
Um, nobody really went out their way to introduce everybody
10:36
But, um, some people were introduced and then that was it.
10:38
Everybody just said, OK, let's go.
10:40
Right.
10:41
Right.
10:42
So what happened?
10:42
You show up, you meet up with your, with your friends.
10:46
So I meet up with them.
10:47
I uh was on the train with these other girls that I knew.
10:51
So they came along with me because I met up with them in Flushing
10:54
and then we went and met with the other individuals in 74th
10:59
Street and we transferred to take the E train downstairs.
11:03
And, uh, we went to Manhattan and, um, everybody got like on
11:08
different subway cars on, on the subway.
11:12
And I was with the girls.
11:14
And when we got out, I went outside when we, we got out at, uh
11:18
53rd and Seventh Avenue.
11:21
And, um, we went, everybody just got outside to the, uh, the
11:26
sidewalk, the street level and everybody was just standing
11:29
there and, um, I had these specific jeans that I had just bought
11:37
I thought they were the coolest, the, the, the, the, like
11:42
greatest jeans that I saw in the Village by West Safe Street
11:46
There was this, uh, thrift shop and I just never seen jeans
11:51
like this.
11:51
So they had a bunch of, of, uh, of pockets, but they had no seams
11:56
in them so you can try to put your hands in there, but they weren't
12:01
going in.
12:02
So it was like front and back all, um, down towards my feet,
12:09
up to you and it was just cool.
12:11
So I had my wallet in my, um, in my socks.
12:15
So you had a pants filled with pockets but nothing could go
12:17
into any of the pan.
12:19
And I was, and I was, and I had my wallet in my socks and I knew
12:24
that, um, my friend who I made plans with that went out with
12:29
us that night I saw him that he came with a fanny pack.
12:33
So, um, prior to going to getting out to Manhattan, I gave him
12:39
my wallet and he put it in his fanny pack because I asked him
12:42
can you hold it for me?
12:42
Because I knew I was gonna be dancing that night.
12:44
I knew as much as I love dancing, I was gonna be dancing and there
12:47
was no way that I was gonna keep my wallet in my um, sock because
12:50
I knew from past experiences my wallet came out of my sock.
12:55
So he said, sure, no problem, I'll hold it in my fanny pack.
12:57
So when we got to um, the street level, I was looking for him
13:01
because I needed my wallet to get inside the club.
13:03
There's no way I can get in if I don't pay and he's not outside
13:07
So I'm asking around, I'm saying, uh, do you see Anthony?
13:10
His name is Anthony?
13:11
He says, I think he never came out of the subway.
13:15
So I said, ok, um, so I told the people, um, that there was that
13:19
already started to leave to go to go to the club.
13:22
I said, just go over there, get online and hold me a spot.
13:25
So I went back downstairs inside the subway and I saw another
13:29
friend and he was just hanging out by the turnstiles, not past
13:34
the turnstiles, but before you go through them and he said
13:38
he was waiting for somebody.
13:40
But at the same time he was flirting with some girls.
13:43
So while I was talking to him, I got involved with him to flirt
13:46
with these with the girls too.
13:48
How many girls were there?
13:49
It was two girls.
13:51
So we started flirting with the girls and um I just got caught
13:55
up in the conversation.
13:56
I said, you know what, I need to look for my friend.
13:59
I was gonna go downstairs past the turns.
14:01
I said no, what?
14:02
You know what?
14:02
Let me, um, go back upstairs but I didn't.
14:06
So I decided to go downstairs and I took the, the, what is it
14:13
The escalators?
14:14
I took the escalator and I never made it downstairs because
14:18
I, as I started to go down the escalators, I heard a bunch of
14:21
people screaming and running towards me.
14:24
So there was no way I could get through them because there was
14:28
so many of them.
14:29
So I just turned around and started running as well.
14:32
And what went through your head is you're going down and you
14:33
hear this commotion and people are coming up the stairs.
14:36
What do you think?
14:37
There was?
14:37
There was a few things actually, I wasn't sure.
14:39
I didn't know, but I said somebody probably got into a fight
14:42
There was a, a subway that crashed, uh, there was a fire or the
14:46
shooting.
14:47
I didn't know what, like it's some bad news.
14:49
I get out of here.
14:50
So I just went upstairs, went out to the street level and then
14:54
I went into ro I went to Rose on it and I met up with um, the girls
14:58
who were online.
14:59
So you saw the girls again online at, and I got online with them
15:03
approximately, I would say maybe 4567 minutes later, the
15:09
pe there were the, another group of individuals that went
15:12
out with us on the subway.
15:13
They came and my friend who was holding my wallet, he was with
15:18
them and we're like asking each other, hey, where are you?
15:22
I was looking for you.
15:22
You were looking for me.
15:24
He gives me my wallet.
15:25
We both go to Roseland.
15:27
We both meet up with the girls and when you're outside, I'm
15:29
sorry, when you run into Anthony, nobody made mention of what
15:33
had happened downstairs.
15:34
Why the rest of the people that were coming out?
15:37
I didn't know them.
15:39
You understand?
15:40
So it's not like people were stopping to say, hey, this was
15:43
going on or people were going up to other people.
15:46
People were just like trying to make mind their business and
15:49
that's how New York City was back in the days.
15:51
So people got out, he was there.
15:53
He said, what's going on?
15:54
I said, I don't know.
15:55
People just coming out and I'm leaving too because I came here
15:58
looking for you.
15:58
But because you're out here, I don't need to go back inside
16:01
That's the bottom line.
16:02
So we went to Roseland.
16:04
I got online and a few minutes later, the other individuals
16:08
that were went out with us that night, they came and they got
16:12
online as well.
16:13
So throughout that whole time, nobody had any idea of what
16:18
took place.
16:19
And when you say the other individuals that came out with us
16:22
that night, were those that were, were, were, were those the
16:26
kids responsible for the murder of uh Brian Watkinson?
16:31
So what was actually happening downstairs as you're upstairs
16:35
flirting with the girls as I understand that they were, they
16:38
were short of cash.
16:39
They were looking to make some money to go party at Roseland
16:41
with the rest of the crowd that night and they wanted to mug
16:45
this family.
16:46
Right.
16:46
Exactly.
16:47
So I told you everything that I just said to you to get to the
16:51
point that it wasn't until after I got arrested, ok, that detectives
16:57
came to my home and dragged me to the police station.
17:00
But before we get there, we'll get, we'll get to that in a second
17:03
We'll get to that in a second.
17:04
I know and I know in your timeline you didn't know what was going
17:07
on, but you know what happened now, in retrospect.
17:11
So while you're flirting with these girls who are the guys
17:14
that are downstairs mugging this family, there's a, there's
17:17
approximately 7 to 8 individuals downstairs or more um that
17:22
decided to mug a family from U uh, Utah, they were tourists
17:27
they were a Mormon family and they were visiting New York
17:29
City to attend the US open tennis tournament.
17:33
And they decided to go out that night, uh, to the village in
17:36
New York City just to go to eat at a restaurant.
17:39
And unfortunately, they never made it to the restaurant because
17:42
some of those individuals that went out with us that night
17:44
didn't have enough money to get inside of Roseland.
17:47
And one individual supposedly accidentally stabbed the
17:51
son of the family and uh with a butterfly knife and his knife
17:58
only went into a quarter of an inch of a artery in his chest and
18:03
he died uh on his way to the hospital.
18:06
And the reason he was stabbed, as I understand and correct
18:09
me if I'm wrong.
18:10
Uh Apparently they accosted the mother and this was a 20 year
18:14
old kid who sort of jumped in front of his mother to make sure
18:18
she wouldn't get hurt and that wound up costing him his life
18:21
No.
18:22
Uh according to the reports of, of how everything happened
18:26
of what was said, that's, that's basically what they said
18:30
that he was coming to um save his mother, help his mother, whatever
18:34
the situation was, which was a sad situation.
18:37
It was a horrible situation.
18:38
And this happened how long after the Central Park Jogger case
18:44
because I think that was also part and parcel of the reason
18:48
you want to getting railroaded because the Central Park Jogger
18:52
case was one year before my case, one year.
18:55
So this was still fresh in the minds of everybody in your and
18:59
and that story intersects with yours via a detective.
19:02
But we're gonna get to that in a little bit.
19:04
You see, I've done my homework.
19:05
So, uh so, so that's what's going on on that platform.
19:10
That's the reason why everybody runs up the stairs completely
19:14
unbeknownst to you, you're trying to get a date with one of
19:17
the two girls and your buddies upstairs in your fancy pants
19:20
full of pockets that you can't use.
19:22
And these guys are killing someone downstairs.
19:25
Yeah, they're, they're, they're robbing somebody.
19:27
Were these guys members of your crew or were they part of an
19:32
extended crew?
19:33
Well, I knew I knew a few of the guys there, not all of them.
19:37
I didn't know all of them.
19:38
In fact, one of the guys that were arrested that night I met
19:42
him that night.
19:43
I never knew him in my life and he became my co defendant for
19:46
the next 25 years.
19:50
So you, so you make it into Roseland?
19:52
Any mention of what had happened?
19:54
Did anyone bring it up?
19:56
No.
19:57
And the guys that had perpetrated that crime, they're partying
20:01
in Roseland that night.
20:02
Yes.
20:03
Yes.
20:04
Uh But I believe uh according to trial minutes and everything
20:10
and what happened at the hearing?
20:11
There was one or two of the individuals that they they never
20:14
made it inside because they were lingering outside the club
20:17
or something and they were immediately identified.
20:20
Yeah.
20:21
Wow.
20:23
So you party that night?
20:26
You have a good time.
20:27
You head home?
20:30
Uh, I don't wanna get ahead of the story but how much time before
20:33
you get a knock on the door?
20:34
So I go home and I'm there with my mother, my girlfriend and
20:40
later that night around, say eight o'clock, 738 o'clock or
20:46
something, detectives come to my home the following night
20:50
the following night.
20:51
So before that, no idea whatsoever.
20:55
Did you hear the news that someone had been?
20:57
So I saw the news with my girlfriend and me and my girlfriend
21:00
was like, oh my God, there's such and such on TV, being arrested
21:05
and taken into a, uh, uh, a car, he was placed inside a car.
21:09
And that's when we found out, hey, you know, there was a, a robbery
21:13
had taken place in the subway.
21:14
So now I'm starting to like, connect the dots here because
21:18
they're talking about Roseland.
21:19
I see one of people that I know that went out with us that night
21:24
and I was like, oh my God, this is crazy, you know.
21:27
Um, thank God, I never went downstairs.
21:30
I'm telling my girlfriend and I started explaining to her
21:32
everything that just happened because she had just came back
21:34
from Florida.
21:35
The first person she was gonna see was me.
21:37
I'm her boyfriend at the time, you know.
21:39
So she's like, oh my God, what's going on?
21:42
So you're as shocked by this as anybody else.
21:44
But I didn't think anything of it, you know.
21:46
So I just continued to be in the house with my girlfriend, my
21:48
mother, I'm eating me and my girlfriend.
21:51
Um, I was gonna take her back home next thing you know, um, the
21:54
police came to my house, detectives came to my house.
21:57
Um They literally literally just like barged in, you know
22:02
they didn't even ask my mother permission and everything
22:05
like that.
22:06
And my mother um really, really didn't know anything about
22:10
the law and neither did I never had a criminal record, never
22:13
been arrested or anything like that.
22:15
So she was like, sure, you know, and you had nothing to hide
22:18
Exactly.
22:18
And we were taught, ok to always be respectful toward authority
22:23
you know.
22:23
So we like my mother wanted to answer their questions.
22:28
She says, not a problem.
22:29
And they asked her, do, does your son live here?
22:32
Do you have a son named Johnny Cap?
22:33
I said, sure.
22:34
And she called me, I came downstairs with my girlfriend and
22:37
they asked me, he says, um, you need to come.
22:40
No, they asked me, did you go out last night?
22:43
He says, yes, I did.
22:44
And my mother was like, why, what happened, what's going on
22:47
He says, oh, no.
22:48
Um we're investigating a crime that your son probably knows
22:52
about a stolen car.
22:54
That's what they said.
22:56
I said a stolen car.
22:57
I don't know, I don't know, stolen car.
22:59
And then all of a sudden one of the detectives just cut to the
23:01
chase says, did you go to Roseline?
23:03
I said, yeah, I went to Rose and, um, says, uh, do you know anything
23:09
that happened?
23:09
He says, no, nothing at all.
23:11
I just saw something about Rosa on the news but I don't know
23:14
anything at all.
23:15
And um, next thing you know, he says, well, you need to come
23:19
with us.
23:19
My mother was like, can I go with him?
23:22
And she was, they were like, well, how old is your son?
23:25
And she said 18, he says, well, no, you don't need to go with
23:28
him.
23:28
He's old enough, he needs to come with us.
23:30
And you had turned 18 shortly before I had just turned 18.
23:33
I was like three months into being 18 years old.
23:37
Yeah.
23:38
So, um, they dragged me out of my house both from grabbing one
23:43
by one arm, the other one by the other arm.
23:45
And my mother was trying to call a lawyer, but she didn't know
23:49
that because she paid, she didn't get to pay her phone bill
23:53
on time, right?
23:55
They weren't allowing her to make phone calls that were going
23:58
out the house, but we were allowed to receive phone calls coming
24:01
into the house.
24:02
So, so she couldn't reach anyone.
24:05
She couldn't reach anyone and they didn't let her come with
24:07
me.
24:07
So these guys drag you to put you in a, in a squad car and take
24:11
me to, uh, midtown North Precinct in Manhattan.
24:13
So you're not taking somewhere in Queens, you're taken directly
24:16
to Manhattan.
24:17
No, they did try to look for somebody else.
24:20
They were looking for somebody else.
24:21
Uh, they stopped in an area of Queens and after they couldn't
24:24
find somebody, they took me to Manhattan.
24:26
Yeah.
24:27
And what happened, what, what went down once you arrived at
24:31
the, at the station?
24:32
Well, there was reporters, media all over the place and one
24:36
of the detectives told me that he was gonna put, um, one of his
24:38
jackets over my head so the media wouldn't see my face.
24:42
And as soon as I came out of the car, they handcuffed me and he
24:45
put my hands behind my back and they handcuffed me and they
24:47
dragged me inside the precinct.
24:49
And all I heard throughout the way was a lot of people talking
24:53
yelling, like, who is that?
24:55
Who is he?
24:56
And you hear a lot of cameras being snapped and shots taken
25:00
And once I was inside the precinct, they took the jacket off
25:02
of me.
25:03
Uh, they had me stand there for a little moment and then they
25:06
took me into a room and, um, there was a detective there and
25:10
he asked the detective, where do you want him to be seated?
25:13
And the detective told him to, um, seat him over there, there
25:16
was a table towards the back with a chair and he sat me right
25:19
there and throughout the whole time he kept me handcuffed
25:23
So during this whole process, at what point does it sink in
25:26
that this is a serious situation for you?
25:29
Well, the moment that the detectives asked me, asked my mother
25:32
that they wanted me to go with them, I had like ambiguous feelings
25:39
because I was like, well, I got no problem going with him because
25:44
if they like trying for me to help out with what took place in
25:48
ro line because if I knew any of the guys, especially being
25:51
that I saw one of the guys on TV, I have no problem helping out
25:55
telling them what I did or what I know.
25:58
So as far as you leaving the house and going into the police
26:01
car, at that point, you're thinking I'm here to help these
26:03
guys out and tell them what I know.
26:05
At what point did you figure this is not what this is about when
26:09
he put the handcuffs on me to go inside the precinct?
26:13
That was the, that was a moment for you.
26:16
Yeah.
26:17
So how were you interrogated?
26:19
Describe that?
26:21
That was, uh, that was a nightmare.
26:23
That was the worst, um, first horrific experience that I had
26:30
uh, just turning 18 years old because keep in mind who doesn't
26:35
wait to be 18 years old?
26:38
You're saying liberation, freedom, right?
26:42
And, um, to be 18 years old and to be handcuffed inside a precinct
26:47
and the detective to ask what happened, I want to know what
26:51
you did last night where you go and when I explained to him,
26:55
for him to all of a sudden become belligerent with me and call
27:00
me a liar and tell me that what I was telling him was not the truth
27:04
Um, I was in shock.
27:06
I was, I, I didn't know what to understand what to expect.
27:10
I'm there thinking, ok, although I'm handcuffed, I'm saying
27:13
what's the process here?
27:15
Is this how they question people or people that they want to
27:19
help out?
27:19
Because I've never been inside a police precinct and for me
27:24
to try to convince him, tell him, why are you calling me a liar
27:28
I'm, this is exactly what I did last night.
27:30
This is what happened.
27:31
This is what I know.
27:32
I don't know about anybody being robbed.
27:34
I don't know about.