Series
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Marilu Marshall

In this episode of "A LA LATINA," hosts Claudia Romo Edelman and Cynthia Kleinbaum Milner welcome Marilu Marshall, Senior Vice President, Executive Management and Global Chief Inclusion, Diversity & Equity Officer at Estee Lauder Companies.

Throughout the conversation, Marilu shares her inspiring journey, offering valuable insights and strategies for Latinas navigating the corporate landscape.

Key takeaways from the episode include:

1. Harnessing the Power of Networking: Marilu emphasizes the importance of building collaborative relationships and maintaining connections across different departments and brands within the organization. She highlights the role of internal networking in driving career advancement and shares tips for effective networking and negotiation.

2. Embracing Cultural Nuances: The discussion explores the positive cultural attributes that Latinas bring to the table, such as passion, commitment, and emotional intelligence. Marilu encourages Latinas to leverage these strengths while also being mindful of cultural nuances in professional settings, such as knowing when to speak up and how to navigate hierarchical structures respectfully.

3. Overcoming Challenges with Resilience: Marilu reflects on her early experiences as a trial lawyer in a male-dominated field, where she learned to dial down certain aspects of her identity in order to fit in. She shares her journey of resilience and growth, highlighting the importance of staying true to oneself while also adapting to new environments and challenges. Mari Lou also reveals the challenges she faced in hiding her Latinidad, even changing her name to go to college, underscoring the systemic barriers Latinas often encounter in pursuit of higher education and career opportunities.

Throughout the episode, Marilu's authenticity and wisdom shine through, offering listeners valuable lessons and inspiration for their own professional journeys. From the power of mentorship to the importance of taking risks and embracing opportunities, Marilu's story is a testament to the resilience and strength of Latina leaders in the corporate world. Listeners are encouraged to embrace their unique identities, seek mentorship, and pursue their career goals with confidence and determination. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to thrive as a Latina leader in today's competitive business landscape.
Show transcript
00:00
Hola. I'm Claudia Romo Del Mar and I'm Cynthia Cleo Milner
00:03
And this is a podcast,
00:04
a La Latina, the playbook to succeed being your authentic self
00:08
In this episode,
00:08
an incredible guest, Mary Lou.
00:10
Marshall. Mary Lou is a senior vice president,
00:13
Executive Management and Global Chief Inclusion Diversity and Equity Officer at the
00:17
Estee Lauder Companies. And here are the three key takeaways from
00:21
this episode. Number 11,
00:23
why did she change her name from Maria Luisa Garcia to Marilou
00:27
Marshall in order to succeed in achieving her dreams of becoming a
00:30
lawyer. Number two,
00:32
how Latinas can use more of their Latinidad as a tool for
00:36
advancing in their careers.
00:37
And number three, she gave us a framework for how you
00:41
can start an employee resource group in your company.
00:44
That and more here in a La Latina stick around today.
00:56
A very special guest,
00:57
Mary Lou. Marshall.
00:59
Mary Lou is a senior vice president,
01:01
Executive Management and Global Chief Inclusion Diversity and Equity Officer at the
01:07
Estee Lauder Company. For those that don't know what this company
01:11
is. The Estee Lauder Companies is one of the world's leading
01:14
manufactures marketers and sellers of quality skincare make up fragrance and hair
01:20
care products and is the steward of luxury and prestige brands globally
01:24
Mary Lou in her role is responsible for driving the company's
01:27
long standing ID and E values across the organization,
01:32
which is diversity, equity and inclusion across the organization,
01:35
the culture, it's business and I find it remarkable that Mary
01:39
Lou reports directly to the chairman of the company.
01:42
This really for me underscores a robust dedication to inclusion and diversity
01:47
clearly demonstrating top level support for ID and E initiatives.
01:52
Some of the ways in which Mary Lou gives back is by
01:54
being a member of the board of directors at the University of
01:57
Miami Alumni Association and a member of the Dean's Advisory Council at
02:02
the University City of Miami Law School.
02:04
Mary Lou, welcome to a La Latina gracias.
02:07
It's a pleasure to be here.
02:09
It is a pleasure for us to have you.
02:11
What an incredible background you have.
02:13
Why don't we start there?
02:14
Tell us about you,
02:15
your upbringing and what made you be who you are and what
02:18
you do today? How many hours do you have?
02:20
Let's go. Yeah.
02:22
No, we have.
02:23
Well, as I think I've told you,
02:25
I was raised by two very strong women.
02:27
My mother and my grandmother,
02:28
both of whom were Cuban.
02:29
My parents, they were born in Cuba,
02:31
their parents were born in Cuba and there's a long heritage of
02:34
Cuban and Spanish ancestry.
02:36
My mother was widowed at a young age,
02:38
brought me from New York where I was born to Florida and
02:41
brought my grandmother up to live with us.
02:42
So I was raised by these two wonderful women,
02:45
neither of whom had been the beneficiaries of higher education.
02:49
And so early on I was taught the value of working hard
02:52
studying hard. And at an early age I decided I
02:56
wanted to be an attorney.
02:58
So I told that to my grandmother who was a very traditional
03:01
conservative, devout daily communicant who believed that the role of a
03:06
lady was to marry well and to be taken care of and
03:09
to be a good wife and mother.
03:11
So when I told her I wanted to be an attorney,
03:13
I can still remember her saying to me,
03:14
I know Chiquita eo,
03:16
no is Paramore. That's a man's job.
03:19
And I didn't really like that answer.
03:21
So I thought about it for a while and then went to
03:23
my mother and told her what my grandmother had said and my
03:25
mother's advice, my mother being more forward thinking and more of
03:29
a modern woman at the time,
03:31
said to me, you can be anything you want to be
03:33
as long as you're willing to work hard enough for it.
03:36
And so that was the thrust of,
03:38
of my entire childhood was you could do anything you wanted to
03:41
do as long as you were willing to work hard for it
03:44
You were telling me when we,
03:45
when we talked about your story that it's almost like you,
03:50
you were raised by a couple,
03:52
but the couple was your grandmother and your mom,
03:55
my mother was the mother and your mom was the father that
03:58
would leave. Come back for you.
04:00
Well, mother went to business every day and we spent quality
04:02
time together on weekends and at night,
04:04
my grandmother was the one who was home with the cookies and
04:06
milk when I came home from school.
04:08
And so it was a traditional family for me.
04:11
Although in our community,
04:12
we were considered very different.
04:14
My mother was the only widowed mother.
04:16
My grandmother didn't speak English.
04:18
And you know, when you're a child,
04:20
you don't want to be different,
04:21
you want to fit in,
04:22
you want to be like everyone else.
04:23
But what I learned from that experience was the importance of respecting
04:27
the differences of others.
04:28
And once again, my mother said to me,
04:30
you don't have to agree with everyone,
04:32
but you have to respect the differences and having a sense of
04:36
values and hard working and that strong woman,
04:40
you know, like we are present how,
04:42
which is very much what happens to a lot of Latinas that
04:45
they have to defy the beliefs and the roots of their
04:50
their ancestors while being grateful for their sacrifices.
04:55
They also want to take a different path that might include even
04:58
going to college. Like in your case,
05:00
how did you deal with that?
05:01
And you know, being respectful to your grandmother and nevertheless,
05:04
taking your own decisions.
05:06
Well, going to college,
05:07
being the first woman in my family to go to college was
05:10
very important to me because I felt that the role of women
05:12
could be more than what it had been,
05:14
not just in our family,
05:15
but in society in general.
05:17
And no, I didn't have a role model.
05:19
I didn't have anyone in my family that I could turn to
05:22
for that. And I didn't at that point have any real
05:24
mentors. But I did know that I wanted to get that
05:27
legal education that was important to me,
05:30
which is what you did overall.
05:32
That is. So tell us a little bit more about that
05:35
Well, I think part of the story of,
05:38
of my upbringing is the fact that as a Latina,
05:42
I was concerned that I would not be able to get a
05:44
scholarship to go to college or law school and without a scholarship
05:47
I could not have gone,
05:48
we did not have the funds.
05:50
So I thought about that and it was during a time,
05:52
I'm a baby boomer,
05:53
I won't tell you at what end of the baby boom,
05:55
but I'm a baby boomer.
05:56
And during that time discrimination against anyone who was not white,
06:01
Anglo Saxon Protestant was,
06:03
was quite serious. So I went to my mother and asked
06:07
her if it would be ok if I changed my name.
06:10
So that I wouldn't be discriminated against in terms of getting a
06:13
scholarship and with her permission,
06:15
that is what I did.
06:16
we sat down together with a book of names and
06:19
I picked the name Marshall out of a book because the definition
06:22
of Marshall in old English society and in the Wild West was
06:27
that of a law enforcement officer and that's what I wanted to
06:29
be. So we picked the name and I became,
06:31
I went from being Marylou Garcia to being Mary Lou Marshall.
06:35
I got my scholarship and it was a means to an end
06:40
Wow. And that was a,
06:41
that was a time of assimilation.
06:45
There was a time in which language was almost like put
06:50
at the side where a number of Latinos where a number
06:54
of Latinos really tried to make the best of their inclusion by
06:58
not being seen and by flying low.
07:01
And on the question of language,
07:03
my mother made it a point to,
07:05
to ensure that I did not speak English with an accent.
07:08
My mother spoke four languages perfectly fluently.
07:11
One of them being English.
07:12
And she made sure that I did not copy my grandmother's accent
07:17
or, or speak with an accent.
07:18
She wanted to make sure that if I was going to pass
07:21
for Anglo Saxon, that I could do it with the language
07:23
as well as the name I feel like we take for granted
07:26
our generation, we take for granted that we can be even
07:30
like the next generation,
07:31
probably takes even more for granted that they can be themselves their
07:35
authentic selves at work.
07:37
And we in this podcast say our mission is that the next
07:41
generation does it in half the time.
07:43
But really before being able to even do it in half the
07:45
time, the mission is for the generation,
07:48
the next generation to do it without having to change their name
07:51
And on behalf of all our audience,
07:53
on behalf of myself,
07:54
I want to thank you for changing your name.
07:56
And then once you achieved your degree and you were in a
08:01
position of power, basically dedicating your entire life to making sure
08:05
that nobody has to change their name again.
08:07
So thank you. Thank you.
08:08
Well, I always wanted to make a difference and if this
08:10
is a way in which I am making a difference,
08:12
I'm very grateful for it.
08:13
And what I should say is that after I got my education
08:16
after I got my degrees,
08:17
I was able to start giving back in different ways.
08:19
I was a member of the board of the Hispanic College Fund
08:22
for example, raising money for scholarships so that other kids
08:25
wouldn't have to do what I did.
08:27
It is incredible and I do feel I know I'm very emotional
08:33
It must be really incredible for you to look back and
08:36
see where we are and say it out loud.
08:40
Say like, well,
08:41
I am a Garcia now it's cool.
08:44
Well, it is cool.
08:45
But I think another thing to consider is when you're the first
08:48
to do anything, whether you're the first woman or the first
08:50
Latina or the first,
08:52
whatever you are,,
08:54
you always feel a bit of pressure because you don't want to
08:57
mess it up. You don't want to mess it up for
08:58
those who come behind you.
09:00
And for some reason I didn't think about that when I was
09:03
doing what I was doing,
09:04
I just wanted to make sure that I was able to achieve
09:07
my goal of becoming an attorney and making a difference in the
09:10
world. I was a very idealistic kid.
09:12
And I thought, you know,
09:13
if I, if I became an attorney,
09:15
if I became a prosecutor,
09:16
if I put bad people in jail,
09:18
I would make the world a better place.
09:20
And I did put a lot of bad people in jail.
09:22
I worked for the Department of Justice,
09:23
but I obviously did not make the world a better place.
09:25
So I moved on and you have been a lawyer all throughout
09:30
I think that your career in different companies and before moving
09:33
into your, I think that into your journey,
09:37
I just wanna go back to that piece that you just gave
09:40
us and just wanna say again,
09:42
as Cynthia say, Gracias,
09:43
thank you so much,
09:44
77% of Latinos say that they cannot be themselves at the workplace
09:48
So if you're Jorge you have to pretend to be George
09:53
and you come to work with and pretend to be someone you
09:56
don't even know. And then you obviously are not performing at
10:00
your best because you're like using the clothes of someone that is
10:03
bigger or smaller or different than you.
10:05
And you cannot do that.
10:07
And that is, the good news is that is changing
10:10
so much.,
10:11
from the last five years,
10:13
the Hispanic sentiment study 2018 to 2023 you have seen a rise
10:17
as I've never seen in my entire career.
10:20
Social change goes so fast from the unity of Latinos going from
10:24
mostly fragmented to half of,
10:27
of us feeling united and from many of us feeling,
10:31
I don't wanna recognize my identity to most of us going and
10:35
saying like I want my see that I wanna be reflected through
10:38
my values, through my language,
10:39
through my culture, through my food.
10:41
And there's this like reclaiming your Latinidad that is happening and having
10:45
someone like you coming into our podcast and publicly maybe for the
10:50
first time saying my,
10:52
my real name was Mario Garcia and I had to do it
10:56
because I needed to grow.
10:57
But I am really happy to demonstrate that you can take off
11:00
your mask and those of you that have done the George,
11:03
you can't go back to being Jorge.
11:06
Well, it's, it's not the first time I've said it
11:08
but it's, it's definitely an important topic.
11:10
For me when I speak to groups that are both in our
11:13
company and outside of our company,
11:14
we have a wonderful employee resource group at our company called the
11:17
Hispanic connection. And I've often told them about the importance of
11:21
being who they really are.
11:22
And even though my name is Mary Lou Marshall and I present
11:26
as I've been told as not Latin.
11:30
I always answer that by saying we come in all sizes
11:33
shapes and colors.
11:34
What is a Latina supposed to look like?
11:36
But even though my name is Mary Lou Marshall,
11:38
I'm still Maria Luisa Garcia inside.
11:40
I love that. I love that.
11:42
So you were a lawyer,
11:44
you put a lot of people in jail and now you are
11:47
at the Estilo Company and you got into,
11:49
but in between she did a couple of things that were quite
11:52
interesting. Exactly. So what was your journey from putting people
11:55
in jail? My journey was quite unplanned.
11:59
And so this is not advice that I would give everyone
12:03
because it was not calculated and it was not planned.
12:05
A lot of it was accidental and a lot of it I
12:08
will say was through relationships,
12:10
through networking, through professional relationships that I didn't even know I
12:13
had connections that I didn't even know I had.
12:16
So I guess part of my advice part is going to say
12:20
be sure that you maintain good relationships wherever you go
12:23
But when I was at the justice department and I began
12:26
to feel that I was not making a difference.
12:29
I actually was recruited by the Playboy company to work on
12:34
their casino project under the hotel's division of Playboy.
12:37
So it was a risk.
12:40
I it was not even a calculated risk.
12:42
Like I can only imagine that hit Hunter that came to you
12:45
and said like that,
12:46
that girl, that blonde girl with a perfect,
12:49
you know, like American accent that I don't even know she's
12:52
going to come from the justice,
12:54
you know, like from,
12:54
from the criminal is like being a prosecutor to come to the
12:57
casino business. How did that happen?
13:00
It happened in a rather strange way.
13:02
And if you have time,
13:03
I'll tell you the story.
13:04
But when I was leaving justice,
13:06
I worked for a short time for a congressional commission.
13:09
And we produced a report on the history of gambling in America
13:13
And as the report was published,
13:15
we went on a speaking tour and I happened to be on
13:18
the Today show interviewed by Barbara Walters,
13:20
by the way, speaking about this report and the man who
13:23
subsequently became my boss at Playboy saw that segment saw me called
13:29
got his head hunter to call me and bring me in
13:32
It was totally by accident.
13:33
It was not something I planned and it was not something I
13:36
expected. And I had never thought about working for Playboy.
13:39
But when the opportunity arose,
13:40
I thought to myself,
13:41
you know, this is a very untraditional job and this is
13:44
probably a once in a lifetime opportunity,
13:46
there'll always be law firms out there.
13:48
There'll always be something conservative that I can do.
13:50
But this is, this is an adventure and it was.
13:55
And then from there you from there,
13:57
I went to work for the Cunard Line Passenger Shipping Company
14:00
which at the time was a wholly owned subsidiary of a
14:04
British publicly traded company called Trafalgar House.
14:06
I knew absolutely nothing about admiralty law and the job of general
14:11
counsel involved safety of lives at sea.
14:14
So again, rather risky,
14:16
but I hired the best admiralty firms in New York and the
14:19
UK and learned from them.
14:21
And that was another adventure.
14:23
And you said that you have been working all your life.
14:26
The only condition is that it starts with ac criminal law,
14:29
casinos, cruise ships and cosmetics.
14:32
The only similarity is they all start with the letter C totally
14:35
different industry. I'm going to think about another industry with ac
14:38
and with Cynthia and Claudia CNC Latina Din.
14:44
Yes. Could you be our lawyer and everything else?
14:47
You know, now you're leading once a lawyer,
14:50
always a lawyer unless you get to sparred and I have not
14:52
been disbarred. But what I do for the company with
14:56
inclusion, diversity and equity,
14:58
it's important to know the law because it helps you to not
15:01
make mistakes. These companies,
15:03
you work that were probably on the extreme of not diverse,
15:08
right? Like playboy and a shipping company.
15:11
It was probably like a lot of men.
15:13
They were all male dominated industries,
15:15
the casino industry, certainly the justice department at the time,
15:19
they were predominantly white male.
15:21
The shipping company was diverse in terms of nationality because we had
15:26
Norwegians, we had Swedish,
15:27
we had Finnish, we had Greek,
15:28
we had different nationalities,
15:30
male male. It was their version of white males.
15:34
And how did you feel working there?
15:36
What did you actually have to hide?
15:38
What did you adjust?
15:40
And what did you use as your super differentiating power?
15:44
Well, early on when I was with the justice department,
15:47
I was trying to be as toned down as possible and to
15:50
dress as conservatively as possible.
15:52
And this was in the era where women who were in business
15:55
were wearing navy blue pinstripe suits with string ties and not particularly
15:59
attractive clothing. And that was just not me.
16:03
So I decided it was better to be myself and to be
16:06
real than to try to be something that I wasn't.
16:10
And I think I was accepted by virtue of the fact that
16:13
I was me and not trying to be one of the guys
16:16
So you've always been your authentic self.
16:19
I think I after,
16:20
after you change your name,
16:22
did your career. And then that was the last time that
16:26
you were trying to be someone you were,
16:28
I love that. And it seems to me that it
16:31
was like more than having to deny yourself with your name change
16:35
You were also trying to loophole the rules that were not
16:38
going to, that we were becoming barrier.
16:40
So you were going to just like bypass them a little bit
16:44
But I didn't let a barrier get me down.
16:47
I didn't let it get in my way when my grandmother said
16:49
eoo es para mujeres,
16:51
I didn't buy that.
16:52
I thought, why not?
16:53
Why can't a woman do this?
16:55
We used to watch a TV program together and it was a
16:57
show. It was probably the equivalent of Law and Order back
17:00
then. But it was about a criminal defense attorney whose clients
17:03
were always innocent, they were always innocent and he spent the
17:07
entire hour of the program trying to find the guilty party so
17:10
he could get his client off and he would bring the bad
17:13
person to justice. And that's what I wanted to do.
17:15
That's where I felt I could make a difference.
17:17
And every time I saw this program and it was an all
17:20
male group of lawyers,
17:22
I thought, you know,
17:23
that doesn't have to be,
17:24
it doesn't have to be,
17:25
that could be me.
17:26
That should be me.
17:28
And then you started thinking about going to the company and they
17:33
had two rules for you,
17:35
right? You could have taken the General Council path or the
17:40
human resources, not the general counsel because that was a much
17:43
bigger company. The company that I worked for Cunard was a
17:46
small company and being general counsel for that was a different role
17:50
But they, I was spoken to about either a job
17:53
opportunity in the legal department or in the human resources department.
17:57
And it was at a time when we were acquiring a number
18:00
of brands, we acquired Mac,
18:01
we acquired Bobby Brown,
18:02
we acquired a beta,
18:03
we acquired you name it,
18:05
keep going. And the HR department was,
18:08
was very heavily involved in the integration of those brands.
18:12
And the head of the HR department was a man who
18:15
referred to himself as a recovering attorney,
18:17
which is what I guess I am now.
18:20
He also came from the someone that I felt a great rapport
18:23
with. So I chose to go the human resources route.
18:25
How much do you think you chose it because of the person
18:28
that you were going to be reporting into or the vision that
18:32
you have of both?
18:33
But the person is very important,
18:35
the person you work for is extremely important.
18:37
Can you talk to us more about that?
18:39
Because I think a lot of people don't think about how important
18:42
it is. Statistically,
18:43
I think it's proven that the reason people leave jobs is because
18:46
of their manager, the major reason some leave because of compensation
18:50
some leave because of geographical relocation,
18:52
but most people leave their jobs because of their manager and I
18:55
think most people accept a job because of the person they're going
18:58
to be working for.
19:00
And so in, in,
19:01
in this role, hr ST Order,
19:04
it's been a journey,
19:06
it's been like a couple of years that you've been with the
19:08
company 25 to be couple of them,
19:11
you have seen a transformation of diversity,
19:13
equity and inclusion. How has been the journey for you
19:17
in the company? Both as a Latina and you know,
19:20
like in the industry are extremely rewarding,
19:23
extremely rewarding. And when we started inclusion diversity and equity at
19:27
Estee Lauder, it was 20 years ago actually,
19:29
and it started as an EEO equal employment opportunity compliance function,
19:33
but it has grown,
19:34
you're right. It was compliance,
19:36
it was compliance, of course,
19:38
legal hat, right.
19:40
It was compliance,
19:41
but it grew into what it is today.
19:44
So I like to say it came from being a moment to
19:47
being a movement and it's been an incredibly successful movement in our
19:50
company in terms of employee engagement,
19:53
in terms of the growth of the acceptance of what we do
19:57
Our framework consists of employee resource groups,
20:00
events and education. We call them the three es and with
20:04
employee resource groups, we started with four in the United States
20:07
One of them being the Hispanic connection and we now have
20:10
45 chapters globally. So it's really been a fabulous journey and
20:14
a great supporting cast of characters from senior leadership from chairman and
20:18
the CEO on down.
20:20
And it's been a priority.
20:21
I mean, like you have so many countries that probably this
20:24
is really an important business imperative altogether to make sure that you
20:28
selling to the people,
20:30
you know, like that you're representing the people that you want
20:32
to attract and sell to.
20:33
Well, we sell our product in 100 and 50 countries and
20:36
that covers all aspects of diversity.
20:38
But I think the thing that's been important for our growth has
20:41
been the fact that we do not view inclusion,
20:44
diversity and equity as a one size fits all because diversity means
20:48
something different in different places of the world.
20:50
Inclusion generally means the same thing.
20:52
But equity might mean something different too.
20:54
So we have tailored our programs to fit the countries in which
20:58
we operate. The program that we developed for South Africa was
21:02
very different than the program we developed from Malaysia,
21:04
which was very different than the program we developed for Brazil.
21:07
So it's really been a bespoke approach to inclusion and diversity,
21:12
which is why I think it's been successful.
21:14
And what about the US,
21:16
your program in the US and particularly,
21:18
you know, like for Hispanics,
21:21
you have really interesting program that we know led by an
21:25
incredible Latina Gabin Natal.
21:26
Well, I don't know whether led by Gabby Natale,
21:28
but which she is part of it.
21:30
So tell us more about that the US as a whole and
21:33
then the Latino the Latino market,
21:37
of course, the US being our headquarters,
21:38
that's where the bulk of our activity has been.
21:41
And we have formed employee resource groups and we have dedicated
21:44
events and educational opportunities to all facets of of diversity that
21:50
includes race, ethnicity,
21:52
gender, sexual orientation,
21:56
generational diversity, which is very important for us,
21:59
disability inclusion, you name it,
22:02
we've covered in the United States and with respect to the Hispanic
22:05
group, we call it the Hispanic connection.
22:07
I mentioned that before they've developed two really wonderful programs to support
22:12
develop and mentor the Latinas in our organization.
22:15
One is for managers and below,
22:17
it's called Cafecito Sessions and it pairs a more junior Latino employee
22:23
with a more senior mentor in the typical mentorship type programming
22:28
And they both are Latinos,
22:30
not just the, the the mentee is Latino,
22:34
the mentor need not be.
22:37
And then the other program is a sponsorship program and that's called
22:40
Leading with high touch.
22:41
Gabby Natale is one of our speakers,
22:43
but it is actually led by the co chairs of the Hispanic
22:47
connection. It's a self developed and self led.
22:50
It's, it was created by Latinos for Latinos and it's
22:54
been very successful thus far,
22:56
we're in our second cohort.
22:57
What's the measure of success?
23:00
The measure of success is career movement and career movement need not
23:04
necessarily be a promotion,
23:05
it can be a promotion,
23:06
it can be a lateral move or it can even be a
23:09
stretch assignment that enables you to ultimately get to your career goal
23:13
So, out of our first cohort of leading with high
23:16
touch, we had a 52% mobility,
23:19
not all promotions, some laterals and some stretch.
23:22
So 52% of people that are touched and actually move is really
23:28
high. I would say no,
23:30
no, it's, it's,
23:30
it's great and I think that it would be great to just
23:33
like hear a little bit more.
23:35
You were telling me a little bit more about that program so
23:37
that, you know,
23:38
like our audience that might be in a company that doesn't have
23:42
that good, you know,
23:43
so you have sponsors as well,
23:45
right? In that program,
23:46
we have sponsors as well.
23:47
I'm proud to be one of the sponsors.
23:49
My spons is a wonderful woman from Chile who is an attorney
23:53
So obviously, there's a connection there and the goal of
23:56
the program is to really provide the professional development tools that many
24:00
of the participants may not have had before in their career.
24:03
They may be the first in their family to go to college
24:06
the first in their family to work in corporate America,
24:08
the first in their family to come to the United States.
24:11
So we try to provide them with the opportunities and the learnings
24:14
that they may not have gotten along the way that will then
24:17
them to move to the next level in their career.
24:20
And I think that we have heard along all our guests,
24:23
how important it is to be aware,
24:24
like conscious of who you are so that you can take ownership
24:29
be yourself and how important that is.
24:31
And you were mentioning also a program on biases and stereotypes like
24:36
shadowing stereotypes ensuring that everyone has biases.
24:42
If you have a brain,
24:43
you have a bias.
24:44
There are stereotypes, some of them are true,
24:46
some of them are not true.
24:47
So we hosted a program around stereotypes,
24:51
listing those that are common to your particular affinity group and then
24:57
listing those that are true.
24:59
And how if, if there are some that are true,
25:02
are they positive or are they negative?
25:04
And if they are negative,
25:05
how do we turn that around?
25:06
I think you call it flipping the script and we called it
25:09
shattering the stereotype. But it's interesting.
25:12
It's like, what's the stereotype?
25:13
Is it true or false?
25:15
And if it's, if it's false,
25:17
how do we shatter it?
25:18
And I think that where we come in is like if it's
25:20
true and it's positive,
25:22
how do we embrace it?
25:24
And how do we make sure that everyone,
25:26
not only the Latinos and the Latinas and Hispanics,
25:30
whatever you wanna call yourself.
25:31
But everyone in the company knows that those biases actually are
25:36
assets and that's where,
25:38
that's where I think that you start seeing more of the
25:41
peer and the manager consciousness taking place is that right?
25:45
I think that's true.
25:47
Very true. Just on,
25:48
on, on the deis if,
25:50
if you, if you want for a second,
25:51
because I know that we're with a legend here 25
25:57
years of seeing an industry that probably has changed so dramatically in
26:01
this, particularly embracing beauty and the people that you put on
26:04
the ads and the people that you put on the leadership and
26:06
so on. What,
26:08
what are the risks and how do we deal with?
26:12
how do we articulate a narrative in this anti de I
26:16
climate? How do we make sure that all practitioners or Latinos
26:19
within companies know how to continue forward without putting themselves,
26:25
you know, like at risk,
26:25
how do we navigate these troubled waters?
26:28
Well, one of the things that,
26:29
that we did early on and you know,
26:32
you call it de I,
26:33
we call it ID and E and the reason is DNE,
26:35
I can say that I can do that.
26:37
But the reason is that we lead with the eye,
26:39
we lead with the inclusion because we knew from the beginning you
26:42
could have the most diverse workforce in the world.
26:44
But if you did not have an inclusive work environment,
26:47
you were going to lose that diverse.
26:48
So inclusion has always been important to us.
26:51
And inclusion means providing an environment where everyone feels valued and respected
26:55
regardless of who they are or where they come from.
26:58
And even with our employee resource groups which are formed around particular
27:01
identities. Our mantra is you don't have to be to belong
27:05
You do not have to be Hispanic to join the Hispanic
27:07
Er G you could be an ally,
27:10
you could be someone who wants to learn more about Hispanic culture
27:13
So we are more open than we are,
27:17
we are more inclusive than we are exclusive.
27:19
And I think that's been important for the growth of our function
27:22
So how I feel like diversity is easier to measure,
27:27
right? Like what percentage of your workforce is?
27:30
Yes of a diverse background.
27:31
How do you measure inclusion?
27:33
And is there any like what are the systematic ways in which
27:37
you enable inclusion? Well,
27:39
you enable it through either the employee resource group sense of community
27:43
the events, the educational programs that I mentioned before.
27:46
But but how you measure it really is through employee sentiment,
27:49
whether it's employee engagement,
27:51
employee surveys, you can also use as an indirect measure,
27:55
turnover, retention and in exit interviews when people are leaving the
28:00
company, why are you leaving?
28:02
Because I didn't feel included?
28:05
Yeah. So there are ways to measure we've even heard from
28:09
I think it was Elizabeth Nieto from Spotify.
28:12
She, she spoke about how we as Latinos should be taking
28:17
our interview process. When we're getting a,
28:19
we we're considering to take a job,
28:22
we should ask these questions and we should try to understand if
28:26
we will be accepted if we will be able to be ourselves
28:29
And she gave some advice on how to test the company
28:33
on. Is there real inclusion in the company?
28:37
Have you if, if you were interviewing now for a job
28:39
at, at any company,
28:41
how would you assist if the employer?
28:44
Well, first I think I would do my homework and my
28:46
research before I asked the question,
28:47
but I would go to their sustainability reports,
28:50
their social impact reports,
28:52
they're publicly traded company.
28:53
So there's a lot of transparency in our reporting and I would
28:56
do my homework to find out what the status is of diversity
28:59
in the company. And then of course,
29:01
I would subtly ask the question.
29:04
I think today so much of what gets put on social media
29:06
can be misleading. So I'm not mentioning social media because it
29:11
can be accurate or it can be not accurate depending on who's
29:14
posting. But there's plenty of of public reporting out there
29:18
now that people looking for jobs can go to.
29:21
I mean, the thing with Mary Lou is that she was
29:23
doing ID, she was doing ID and D before.
29:27
It was cool before it was basically everybody was doing it
29:33
So it may be easier for you to say we're sticking
29:35
with the plan, it's working.
29:36
It's it has success from a business perspective.
29:39
We weren't following the trend and those who are just following the
29:43
trend to check a mark or to post on social media,
29:46
maybe the one saying maybe I should back.
29:47
Well, you're right because when we started this 20 years ago
29:51
it wasn't a trend,
29:53
it was something that we felt was part of our core values
29:55
and very much a part of the DNA of our company.
29:57
And as a result,
29:58
it's been able to grow over the time.
30:00
It's not something we just started in 2020.
30:03
So this is not a performative check the box type of an
30:06
initiative. But again,
30:08
based on the fact that we lead with the eye,
30:10
it's always been formed around the concept of inclusion,
30:14
inclusion for all. And is there any final thought on programs
30:19
that you think that are like great that you feel very proud
30:23
of or programs that have,
30:24
you know, failed?
30:25
And you would say share some knowledge on this journey of inclusion
30:29
Well, I still think the employee resource groups as a
30:31
whole are, are really the jewel in our crown because they
30:34
have created a sense of community for our employees,
30:37
particularly during the lockdown during COVID when we were not in the
30:41
office, those employee resource groups held their members together,
30:45
held virtual events, held virtual cocktail hours or cafecitos or
30:50
whatever it happened to be and kept the momentum of the familia
30:54
that we had at Estee Lauder.
30:55
So I think employee resource groups have been an incredibly successful part
30:59
of our initiative in terms of failures.
31:01
I I don't think we've had a failure per se.
31:03
There's some groups that started,
31:04
that perhaps didn't catch on as well and they have faded out
31:08
over time. I think our educational programs have been very
31:11
important because they raise awareness.
31:13
And we like to say that awareness precedes action before you can
31:17
have an action. People have to be aware of the need
31:19
to take action. So the educational programs have been very important
31:23
I think in terms of the diversification of our
31:26
diversity initiative, that's been another important factor that what I said
31:30
earlier about one size does not fit all that's made it relevant
31:34
all over the world as opposed to only being us centric and
31:38
relevant in the United States.
31:40
So II, I work,
31:43
I've worked in companies that have pretty robust employee resources group.
31:47
Like I at Walmart,
31:48
we have a pretty a large one,
31:50
but I've also worked in companies that have zero.
31:53
And I, I'm wondering if you have a framework for how
31:58
can we somebody like me or an employee?
32:02
Anybody listening, start an employee resource group.
32:05
Like what are the no brainer like?
32:07
These are the first steps you before you start that.
32:10
And I think that the first step is to make sure that
32:12
you have a group of people that,
32:14
that think like you that want to form this group.
32:17
The importance of these groups is that they must be grassroots,
32:20
they must be from the bottom up,
32:21
it must be the employees that want to have this group and
32:24
that it's not senior management saying you must have a Hispanic group
32:27
or you must have a group for black employees,
32:31
it has to come from the employees themselves.
32:33
And as long as it's self led and self governed,
32:36
then it's up to the,
32:37
the group itself to to lead the way.
32:41
But I think finding a group of like minded individuals is important
32:45
and when they come to us,
32:46
we always ask, are you the only one who wants to
32:49
have this group or do you have colleagues that want to join
32:51
you? And we think that 40 is about the minimum number
32:55
open an organization, the size of ours to form a group
32:58
Otherwise there's nobody to lead it.
32:59
There's nobody to actually do the work.
33:01
And I think that from the employee resource groups is where you
33:05
start seeing the need to create,
33:07
for example, the high touch.
33:08
That's right. It's it's the employee resource groups who have said
33:12
to us we want whatever it is they want,
33:14
we want professional development,
33:16
we want a mentorship program,
33:18
we have a mentorship program,
33:19
not only for the Hispanic group,
33:20
but also for our black er G,
33:23
our Asian er G and our LGBT Q er G.
33:26
They all have mentorship programs.
33:28
They don't all have sponsorship programs but they have mentorships and it
33:32
really comes from them asking for more Incorporated America,
33:36
the the most ceiling that we see is in the promotion
33:41
piece in the ha getting to the C Suite,
33:44
getting to senior management.
33:46
And that is one of the reasons we started this podcast to
33:50
make sure that we understand.
33:51
What are those blockages?
33:53
What are those things that we need to know?
33:54
What is a playbook that other Latinas have made it to?
33:58
I succeed, but also succeed being themselves.
34:01
And you have a couple of people in your organization that have
34:03
gone through that. And yet I think that promotion is the
34:06
piece that programs like the high touch are trying to solve
34:10
correct. Like how do you get from mid to Sydney
34:13
Yes, exactly.
34:14
How do you get from mid level management to senior management or
34:17
in the case of Cafecito sessions?
34:19
How do you get from lower level management to mid level management
34:22
And what are the things that are successful there?
34:24
What, what has made because 52% of movement and a couple
34:29
of them higher is really good.
34:30
What, what is that is being unlocked in those areas?
34:33
Like the tips and tricks,
34:34
the playbook? Well,
34:36
the company, the self confidence,
34:39
I think in our company,
34:40
one of the important factors,
34:42
success factors for anyone Latino or otherwise is building collaborative relationships and
34:47
maintaining those relationships. That's how we get things done is through
34:50
relationships, matrix organization,
34:53
right? And that's how we learn about one another.
34:58
If we want to cross functional lines for example,
35:01
or brand lines, how do we do that if we don't
35:03
know anybody outside of our brand,
35:05
if we're silo. So I think that entire internal networking connectivity
35:09
is incredibly important. And that's something we teach in the sponsorship
35:13
is how to network properly,
35:15
how to negotiate, how to present yourself in a,
35:18
in a professional way.
35:19
What are the cultural nuances of Latinos that they could be proud
35:23
of? My mother always said to me,
35:25
don't, don't talk with your hands.
35:26
You've seen me talk with my hands.
35:28
So some of the things she taught me,
35:30
I haven't quite learned yet well.
35:32
But the cultural nonsense that Claudia was talking about is if,
35:35
if your company operates in 100 and 50 countries in some countries
35:39
you will trust by going to somebody's house,
35:42
by going for drinks in other companies is by delivering output and
35:45
cross cultural competence is an important thing to learn because we can't
35:49
always assume that our culture is the same as the culture of
35:54
the country we're dealing with.
35:55
And so there might be nuances based on people's desire to
35:59
speak out at meetings versus those who are more quiet.
36:03
Are they more quiet?
36:04
Because they don't know the answer?
36:05
No, they're probably more quiet because they're more respectful of the
36:08
senior people in the room and they need to be called on
36:10
That's a cultural difference that we try to learn as we
36:14
go through. And what are those cultural nuances that you have
36:16
learned from Latinos or Latinas over the years that you
36:21
would say these are cultural nuances that peers managers and Latino should
36:25
be aware of as positive.
36:26
And then we can go into the negatives that need to be
36:29
you know, like dialed down or,
36:31
well, what are the positives I think comes with,
36:33
with passion and commitment and emotion,
36:36
not that you're gonna break down in tears at a,
36:38
at a meeting, but that you're going to speak with,
36:40
with true true passion about the subject matter that you are
36:45
trying to either sell or discuss.
36:47
And to me that's a positive,
36:49
there might be some who think of it as a negative.
36:51
I don't, I think also knowing when to speak up and
36:55
what to say, not just to speak for the sake of
36:59
hearing your own voice,
37:00
but to speak up when you have something important to say.
37:03
And I think Latinos are more aware of that perhaps than some
37:05
other groups because they don't want to make a mistake and say
37:09
the wrong thing. So they're very careful and thoughtful about when
37:12
they speak up and what it is they have to say and
37:15
maybe we should speak up a little bit too much.
37:18
We're expecting to be perfect in,
37:20
in the way in which we apply to a job or we
37:22
have that shyness. One of our characteristics is that of humility
37:27
humility. We are humble and that's not a bad thing
37:30
but it sometimes does get in our way when it comes
37:33
to speaking out in meetings.
37:34
And I've noticed it particularly on Zoom meetings which have become the
37:38
bane of our existence.
37:39
I think we get a lot of work done but it's,
37:41
it's not the same as being in person and not just Latinos
37:45
but junior people too,
37:47
of all races and ethnicities are less inclined to speak out at
37:51
a Zoom meeting because they don't know when to interject.
37:54
They don't want to interrupt the person speaking.
37:56
So they hold back.
37:57
And by the time there's a pause in the conversation,
37:59
the topic has moved on to something else and their point is
38:02
no longer relevant. I think if you're in person,
38:05
there are ways that your body language can reflect that you have
38:07
something to say. You lean into the conversation or you raise
38:10
your hand or you wave at the person speaking to say,
38:13
but I can add to that,
38:15
but that's not possible as well.
38:17
And I think that's been a hindrance.
38:19
I was in when,
38:20
when COVID started and we started working from home,
38:23
I remember telling people that move away from where the headquarters are
38:28
and start working remotely are not gonna get promoted at the same
38:31
rate. There's no way.
38:32
And I saw the stat recently,
38:34
I mean, it's obvious how can you get promoted if you're
38:36
not having the informal conversations,
38:38
the meeting that happens before and after the meeting,
38:40
outside the meeting room.
38:42
So well, I I used to say we got a
38:44
lot done on our conversations in the ladies room or in the
38:47
pantry or in the hallway and,
38:49
and we missed that during COVID.
38:51
Yeah, just that.
38:52
So just to summarize again the and then we wanna go,
38:56
I wanna go into your own identity but the superpowers that you
39:00
have seen of Latinos that can help and then you know,
39:03
like the, the things where we can flip the script,
39:06
emotional intelligence. Number one resilience,
39:10
adaptability. You said optimism.
39:13
Are you just writing the job description of a leader or what
39:16
What are we?
39:18
No, I'm I'm thinking out loud right now.
39:20
No, I don't.
39:21
But like those are characteristics that we want in leaders and the
39:25
fact that Latinas have them.
39:27
And yes, I did say optimism before and what about the
39:30
the things that we need to that are the stereotypes that
39:33
you think that we should flip the script,
39:36
the negatives, the negatives that could be positives or the negatives
39:39
that we should just like try to accept us.
39:42
Well, I think being,
39:44
being perceived as emotional can be taken as a negative depending on
39:49
the context. If someone is to say to you,
39:52
oh, she's too emotional.
39:54
What does that mean?
39:55
Ask the question? If what it means is she breaks down
39:58
and cries whenever I give her constructive feedback,
40:00
then that is a negative.
40:01
But if it means that she gets very excited and she starts
40:05
waving her hands around when she's talking about a particular project.
40:07
And that's a positive then that should be called come or enthusiast
40:11
So yes. So I think asking the question,
40:13
if somebody gives you a critical statement about someone asking the question
40:17
why or how or what does that look like is important
40:22
I've always wondered we,
40:23
we haven't touched on this.
40:25
Maybe you have a perspective on the idea that Latinos are a
40:28
little bit more used to hierarchy and following orders and respectful for
40:35
authority. And I,
40:37
I don't know if that's always a good thing.
40:40
What do you think?
40:42
I think it depends on how high the authority is.
40:46
But like when, when is it good to be respectful of
40:50
author of the authority and when in an organization,
40:53
when is it like,
40:54
I think it's generally a positive to be respectful of,
40:58
of authority, but there are ways in which you can challenge
41:00
that authority that are not hostile,
41:04
controversial or confrontation. I would never call out a senior person
41:10
on a mistake that they made in a presentation in a room
41:12
full of people that would be suicide.
41:15
But to go to that person afterwards to point out that there
41:18
was an error and to do it respectfully would be appropriate.
41:22
So I think it depends on the circumstances.
41:25
We've heard a lot that Latinos sometimes are so thankful for having
41:29
the job that we don't want to rock the boat and part
41:33
of that. Yeah,
41:34
exactly. So, in the spectrum,
41:36
I think we have to get back at moving from too humble
41:40
I don't want to rock the boat.
41:41
I don't challenge anything and being the opposite somewhere in the middle
41:46
and being able to move from one to the other.
41:48
So I wanna talk about you for a second.
41:50
So you said Marylou Marshall,
41:54
but always Maria Luisa Garcia in your heart.
41:57
Has Maria Luisa Garcia throughout your career?
42:00
Had to dial down.
42:01
Where were those moments?
42:03
I don't know anybody that didn't have dialed down at some point
42:06
And where were those moments?
42:08
Primarily at the beginning of my career of being the only woman
42:12
in the office, being a trial lawyer in a room full
42:15
of men. I couldn't be particularly emotional whether I wanted
42:20
to be or not,
42:20
was irrelevant. I just couldn't be in that setting.
42:23
So I think dialing down at the beginning was something I did
42:26
quite a lot. Yeah.
42:27
And I think that that's where,
42:29
that's where we have seen a number of people that have to
42:31
dial down their identity and their Latinidad in order to fit in
42:35
What about your superpowers?
42:36
Where have your superpowers as Latina come into play to
42:40
make you be where you are today here at Estee Lauder in
42:43
particular where I've, I've really been able to pursue my dream
42:46
of making a difference and I like to think that we all
42:49
have those of us who work in this field do make a
42:52
difference every day. And a lot of what I've been able
42:55
to, to express more at Estee lauder than,
42:59
than before is, is empathy,
43:01
caring for my colleagues,
43:02
caring for those around me.
43:04
We do a lot of good philanthropic work at the company
43:07
and that's been near and dear to my heart.
43:10
And in short,
43:12
the work that I do has been a blessing for me and
43:14
I hope for the company as well.
43:16
Did you feel that way when you joined Estee Lauder companies or
43:20
or has it evolved?
43:22
Oh, it's definitely evolved over 25 years,
43:24
but I was very excited to join Estee Lauder.
43:26
And as I said,
43:27
I've been here 25 years now.
43:29
I'm only sorry I didn't get here sooner.
43:31
It's a wonderful company to work for and it's one that,
43:33
that fits me and my DNA particularly well.
43:36
I love the products.
43:38
I love the history of the company founded by a woman
43:42
I love working with a lot of really,
43:44
really terrific professional women experiences I did not have in the casino
43:48
business or in the cruise ship business or in the criminal law
43:50
business. So it's been a real reward for me to work
43:53
there. But over the years as I have moved through my
43:57
different roles at Estee Lauder,
44:00
it's really taken on a more important personal meaning for me
44:04
I think it's a,
44:05
like you're lucky that you found your place,
44:08
right? Because most people probably spend their entire life in careers
44:11
that, or companies that are not quite perfect and you seem
44:14
to be in the perfect place for you.
44:16
My stepson tells me this all the time.
44:18
He said, you know,
44:19
you really love your job,
44:21
don't you? And I said,
44:21
yes, you really love to go to work,
44:23
don't you? Yes.
44:24
And he said, you're lucky because not many people do.
44:28
And again, what we're trying to do with the podcast is
44:31
to make sure that we understand and learn from the leaders,
44:37
the trailblazers like yourself that have made it so that we can
44:41
pass on that knowledge and allow other Latinas to make it in
44:45
half the time with half the bruises.
44:47
So if you, if you could go back and look at
44:50
yourself, what would be the advice that you would give to
44:53
yourself when you were,
44:55
you know, like 30 years ago?
44:57
Well, you know,
44:58
I didn't know about mentorship and sponsorship.
45:00
When, when I was starting in my career,
45:02
I had mentors, but I didn't know that's what they were
45:04
And so I would want to have younger folks today
45:08
have a raised awareness of the importance of that and the difference
45:11
it can make in your career.
45:14
I'll give you the example that made a difference at the very
45:17
beginning of my career.
45:18
I had a woman law professor who was trying to talk me
45:22
out of wanting to be a criminal lawyer,
45:24
a trial lawyer. She wanted me to go into one of
45:26
those nice conservative law firms and have a quiet life.
45:30
And when she couldn't talk me out of it,
45:32
she made a connection for me that led to my being hired
45:36
by the organized crime section of the Department of Justice.
45:38
A job I would have never gotten on my own because I
45:41
wouldn't have known that there was an organized crime section of the
45:43
Department of Justice. So she was a mentor for me and
45:47
I didn't even know it.
45:48
I didn't know that's what she was.
45:49
I thought she was just a really great professor.
45:51
And, but I guess to follow up to that how
45:56
I thought the story was gonna be quite the opposite of like
46:00
this is the worst mentor I could ever have.
46:02
Like why she was trying to talk me out of something that
46:04
I actually really wanted and ended up being a good career move
46:07
So how do you know what,
46:11
when to listen to what your mentor is telling you and when
46:14
to ignore what your mentor is telling you?
46:16
Well, in that case,
46:17
I was just following my heart,
46:18
that was what I wanted to do.
46:19
And if I hadn't gotten a job with justice,
46:21
I would have wound up in a district attorney's office somewhere doing
46:25
different kind of work.
46:27
But I think you part of it is knowing what you
46:29
love because if you do what you love and you love what
46:32
you do, then you're not going to feel like you're working
46:34
And so following your heart is important and not being afraid
46:38
to change paths, not being afraid to take risks.
46:41
I watched one of your podcast with Marisa Solis from NFL and
46:46
she said that if she had to do differently,
46:48
she might have taken more risks and she might have wound up
46:51
being an ambassador after all,
46:52
which is what her dream job was.
46:54
What about you? Well,
46:55
I took a lot of risks and if I had not taken
46:59
those risks, where would I have wound up?
47:01
I have no idea.
47:03
So you would, what would you have done different?
47:05
Looking backwards? What would I have done different?
47:10
I think I might have moved faster from one role to another
47:13
I've stayed in places for a very long time.
47:15
25 years being the longest,
47:17
but I was always 10 years,
47:19
11 years, eight years in a job.
47:22
and I probably could have gotten out of that comfort zone
47:26
faster and perhaps moved faster,
47:28
but I might have wound up in the same place.
47:31
So I don't know that it makes a difference.
47:33
So before we close,
47:35
and ask you for advice on what,
47:38
you know, who else shall we have here?
47:40
What would be your message to your younger you know,
47:43
like your younger audience out there,
47:45
like the Latinas that are listening to you that want to be
47:48
a lawyer. There's only 1% of Latinos that are a lawyer
47:52
less than 0.5% of Latinas that are lawyers.
47:56
Well, otherwise would you tell someone,
47:59
I think you cannot go wrong by getting a law degree because
48:02
a law degree will stand you in good stead no matter what
48:05
you choose to do in life.
48:06
If you go into business,
48:07
if you decide not to practice law,
48:10
that law degree is never going to hurt you.
48:12
So I highly recommend,
48:13
in fact, I'm a cheerleader for women,
48:15
going to law school.
48:16
And my law school at the University of Miami has a very
48:19
high percentage of women.
48:20
So I encourage you if you're a woman to apply to the
48:23
University of Miami Law School,
48:25
she's also on the board.
48:26
So if you need a connection,
48:28
you know, Latinas helping Latinas,
48:30
I always say that I want to have lawyers in my friends
48:33
I, I don't know that I would have been a
48:34
good lawyer, but I want to have a lot of lawyers
48:36
in my circle so I can ask them for advice.
48:38
It's such a valuable like mindset mindset clarity as well.
48:43
And in today's world,
48:44
there is a joint degree,
48:45
it's a joint JD law degree and MB A which you
48:49
can get in a compressed period of time if that had existed
48:52
when I went to school,
48:53
I might have done that because I always thought that business would
48:56
be a fallback. If for any reason,
48:57
the law didn't work out for me,
48:58
business would be a fallback.
49:00
And now that they have that joint degree,
49:02
I highly recommend that one as well.
49:03
So who else shall we have here?
49:05
Who else is going to allow the young Latinas to get a
49:08
playbook the way that you have guided us?
49:10
Well, that's an easy question for me to answer because I'm
49:13
going to say one of my wonderful colleagues at Estee Lauder Michelle
49:16
Frere, who is the global brand president for Clinique and Origins
49:20
She is a true force of nature.
49:22
She's inspirational. She's fun and obviously very talented,
49:27
very smart. Let's bring her on Marilou Marshall.
49:30
What an incredible pleasure having you here.
49:33
Thank you for sharing your story for your vulnerability,
49:35
for your generosity. Thank you.
49:37
It's my pleasure to be here and thank you because thanks to
49:40
your story, we're gonna inspire other people to lead a Latina
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