00:00
Hola. I'm Claudia Romo Del Mar and I'm Cynthia Cleo Milner
00:03
And this is a podcast,
00:04
a La Latina, the playbook to succeed being your authentic self
00:08
an incredible guest, Mary Lou.
00:10
Marshall. Mary Lou is a senior vice president,
00:13
Executive Management and Global Chief Inclusion Diversity and Equity Officer at the
00:17
Estee Lauder Companies. And here are the three key takeaways from
00:21
this episode. Number 11,
00:23
why did she change her name from Maria Luisa Garcia to Marilou
00:27
Marshall in order to succeed in achieving her dreams of becoming a
00:32
how Latinas can use more of their Latinidad as a tool for
00:36
advancing in their careers.
00:37
And number three, she gave us a framework for how you
00:41
can start an employee resource group in your company.
00:44
That and more here in a La Latina stick around today.
00:56
A very special guest,
00:59
Mary Lou is a senior vice president,
01:01
Executive Management and Global Chief Inclusion Diversity and Equity Officer at the
01:07
Estee Lauder Company. For those that don't know what this company
01:11
is. The Estee Lauder Companies is one of the world's leading
01:14
manufactures marketers and sellers of quality skincare make up fragrance and hair
01:20
care products and is the steward of luxury and prestige brands globally
01:24
Mary Lou in her role is responsible for driving the company's
01:27
long standing ID and E values across the organization,
01:32
which is diversity, equity and inclusion across the organization,
01:35
the culture, it's business and I find it remarkable that Mary
01:39
Lou reports directly to the chairman of the company.
01:42
This really for me underscores a robust dedication to inclusion and diversity
01:47
clearly demonstrating top level support for ID and E initiatives.
01:52
Some of the ways in which Mary Lou gives back is by
01:54
being a member of the board of directors at the University of
01:57
Miami Alumni Association and a member of the Dean's Advisory Council at
02:02
the University City of Miami Law School.
02:04
Mary Lou, welcome to a La Latina gracias.
02:07
It's a pleasure to be here.
02:09
It is a pleasure for us to have you.
02:11
What an incredible background you have.
02:13
Why don't we start there?
02:15
your upbringing and what made you be who you are and what
02:18
you do today? How many hours do you have?
02:23
Well, as I think I've told you,
02:25
I was raised by two very strong women.
02:27
My mother and my grandmother,
02:28
both of whom were Cuban.
02:29
My parents, they were born in Cuba,
02:31
their parents were born in Cuba and there's a long heritage of
02:34
Cuban and Spanish ancestry.
02:36
My mother was widowed at a young age,
02:38
brought me from New York where I was born to Florida and
02:41
brought my grandmother up to live with us.
02:42
So I was raised by these two wonderful women,
02:45
neither of whom had been the beneficiaries of higher education.
02:49
And so early on I was taught the value of working hard
02:52
studying hard. And at an early age I decided I
02:56
wanted to be an attorney.
02:58
So I told that to my grandmother who was a very traditional
03:01
conservative, devout daily communicant who believed that the role of a
03:06
lady was to marry well and to be taken care of and
03:09
to be a good wife and mother.
03:11
So when I told her I wanted to be an attorney,
03:13
I can still remember her saying to me,
03:16
no is Paramore. That's a man's job.
03:19
And I didn't really like that answer.
03:21
So I thought about it for a while and then went to
03:23
my mother and told her what my grandmother had said and my
03:25
mother's advice, my mother being more forward thinking and more of
03:29
a modern woman at the time,
03:31
said to me, you can be anything you want to be
03:33
as long as you're willing to work hard enough for it.
03:36
And so that was the thrust of,
03:38
of my entire childhood was you could do anything you wanted to
03:41
do as long as you were willing to work hard for it
03:44
You were telling me when we,
03:45
when we talked about your story that it's almost like you,
03:50
you were raised by a couple,
03:52
but the couple was your grandmother and your mom,
03:55
my mother was the mother and your mom was the father that
03:58
would leave. Come back for you.
04:00
Well, mother went to business every day and we spent quality
04:02
time together on weekends and at night,
04:04
my grandmother was the one who was home with the cookies and
04:06
milk when I came home from school.
04:08
And so it was a traditional family for me.
04:11
Although in our community,
04:12
we were considered very different.
04:14
My mother was the only widowed mother.
04:16
My grandmother didn't speak English.
04:18
And you know, when you're a child,
04:20
you don't want to be different,
04:22
you want to be like everyone else.
04:23
But what I learned from that experience was the importance of respecting
04:27
the differences of others.
04:28
And once again, my mother said to me,
04:30
you don't have to agree with everyone,
04:32
but you have to respect the differences and having a sense of
04:36
values and hard working and that strong woman,
04:40
you know, like we are present how,
04:42
which is very much what happens to a lot of Latinas that
04:45
they have to defy the beliefs and the roots of their
04:50
their ancestors while being grateful for their sacrifices.
04:55
They also want to take a different path that might include even
04:58
going to college. Like in your case,
05:00
how did you deal with that?
05:01
And you know, being respectful to your grandmother and nevertheless,
05:04
taking your own decisions.
05:06
Well, going to college,
05:07
being the first woman in my family to go to college was
05:10
very important to me because I felt that the role of women
05:12
could be more than what it had been,
05:14
not just in our family,
05:15
but in society in general.
05:17
And no, I didn't have a role model.
05:19
I didn't have anyone in my family that I could turn to
05:22
for that. And I didn't at that point have any real
05:24
mentors. But I did know that I wanted to get that
05:27
legal education that was important to me,
05:30
which is what you did overall.
05:32
That is. So tell us a little bit more about that
05:35
Well, I think part of the story of,
05:38
of my upbringing is the fact that as a Latina,
05:42
I was concerned that I would not be able to get a
05:44
scholarship to go to college or law school and without a scholarship
05:47
I could not have gone,
05:48
we did not have the funds.
05:50
So I thought about that and it was during a time,
05:53
I won't tell you at what end of the baby boom,
05:55
but I'm a baby boomer.
05:56
And during that time discrimination against anyone who was not white,
06:01
Anglo Saxon Protestant was,
06:03
was quite serious. So I went to my mother and asked
06:07
her if it would be ok if I changed my name.
06:10
So that I wouldn't be discriminated against in terms of getting a
06:13
scholarship and with her permission,
06:16
we sat down together with a book of names and
06:19
I picked the name Marshall out of a book because the definition
06:22
of Marshall in old English society and in the Wild West was
06:27
that of a law enforcement officer and that's what I wanted to
06:29
be. So we picked the name and I became,
06:31
I went from being Marylou Garcia to being Mary Lou Marshall.
06:35
I got my scholarship and it was a means to an end
06:40
Wow. And that was a,
06:41
that was a time of assimilation.
06:45
There was a time in which language was almost like put
06:50
at the side where a number of Latinos where a number
06:54
of Latinos really tried to make the best of their inclusion by
06:58
not being seen and by flying low.
07:01
And on the question of language,
07:03
my mother made it a point to,
07:05
to ensure that I did not speak English with an accent.
07:08
My mother spoke four languages perfectly fluently.
07:11
One of them being English.
07:12
And she made sure that I did not copy my grandmother's accent
07:17
or, or speak with an accent.
07:18
She wanted to make sure that if I was going to pass
07:21
for Anglo Saxon, that I could do it with the language
07:23
as well as the name I feel like we take for granted
07:26
our generation, we take for granted that we can be even
07:30
like the next generation,
07:31
probably takes even more for granted that they can be themselves their
07:35
authentic selves at work.
07:37
And we in this podcast say our mission is that the next
07:41
generation does it in half the time.
07:43
But really before being able to even do it in half the
07:45
time, the mission is for the generation,
07:48
the next generation to do it without having to change their name
07:51
And on behalf of all our audience,
07:53
on behalf of myself,
07:54
I want to thank you for changing your name.
07:56
And then once you achieved your degree and you were in a
08:01
position of power, basically dedicating your entire life to making sure
08:05
that nobody has to change their name again.
08:07
So thank you. Thank you.
08:08
Well, I always wanted to make a difference and if this
08:10
is a way in which I am making a difference,
08:12
I'm very grateful for it.
08:13
And what I should say is that after I got my education
08:16
after I got my degrees,
08:17
I was able to start giving back in different ways.
08:19
I was a member of the board of the Hispanic College Fund
08:22
for example, raising money for scholarships so that other kids
08:25
wouldn't have to do what I did.
08:27
It is incredible and I do feel I know I'm very emotional
08:33
It must be really incredible for you to look back and
08:36
see where we are and say it out loud.
08:41
I am a Garcia now it's cool.
08:45
But I think another thing to consider is when you're the first
08:48
to do anything, whether you're the first woman or the first
08:50
Latina or the first,
08:54
you always feel a bit of pressure because you don't want to
08:57
mess it up. You don't want to mess it up for
08:58
those who come behind you.
09:00
And for some reason I didn't think about that when I was
09:03
doing what I was doing,
09:04
I just wanted to make sure that I was able to achieve
09:07
my goal of becoming an attorney and making a difference in the
09:10
world. I was a very idealistic kid.
09:12
And I thought, you know,
09:13
if I, if I became an attorney,
09:15
if I became a prosecutor,
09:16
if I put bad people in jail,
09:18
I would make the world a better place.
09:20
And I did put a lot of bad people in jail.
09:22
I worked for the Department of Justice,
09:23
but I obviously did not make the world a better place.
09:25
So I moved on and you have been a lawyer all throughout
09:30
I think that your career in different companies and before moving
09:33
into your, I think that into your journey,
09:37
I just wanna go back to that piece that you just gave
09:40
us and just wanna say again,
09:42
as Cynthia say, Gracias,
09:44
77% of Latinos say that they cannot be themselves at the workplace
09:48
So if you're Jorge you have to pretend to be George
09:53
and you come to work with and pretend to be someone you
09:56
don't even know. And then you obviously are not performing at
10:00
your best because you're like using the clothes of someone that is
10:03
bigger or smaller or different than you.
10:05
And you cannot do that.
10:07
And that is, the good news is that is changing
10:11
from the last five years,
10:13
the Hispanic sentiment study 2018 to 2023 you have seen a rise
10:17
as I've never seen in my entire career.
10:20
Social change goes so fast from the unity of Latinos going from
10:24
mostly fragmented to half of,
10:27
of us feeling united and from many of us feeling,
10:31
I don't wanna recognize my identity to most of us going and
10:35
saying like I want my see that I wanna be reflected through
10:38
my values, through my language,
10:39
through my culture, through my food.
10:41
And there's this like reclaiming your Latinidad that is happening and having
10:45
someone like you coming into our podcast and publicly maybe for the
10:50
first time saying my,
10:52
my real name was Mario Garcia and I had to do it
10:56
because I needed to grow.
10:57
But I am really happy to demonstrate that you can take off
11:00
your mask and those of you that have done the George,
11:03
you can't go back to being Jorge.
11:06
Well, it's, it's not the first time I've said it
11:08
but it's, it's definitely an important topic.
11:10
For me when I speak to groups that are both in our
11:13
company and outside of our company,
11:14
we have a wonderful employee resource group at our company called the
11:17
Hispanic connection. And I've often told them about the importance of
11:21
being who they really are.
11:22
And even though my name is Mary Lou Marshall and I present
11:26
as I've been told as not Latin.
11:30
I always answer that by saying we come in all sizes
11:34
What is a Latina supposed to look like?
11:36
But even though my name is Mary Lou Marshall,
11:38
I'm still Maria Luisa Garcia inside.
11:40
I love that. I love that.
11:42
So you were a lawyer,
11:44
you put a lot of people in jail and now you are
11:47
at the Estilo Company and you got into,
11:49
but in between she did a couple of things that were quite
11:52
interesting. Exactly. So what was your journey from putting people
11:55
in jail? My journey was quite unplanned.
11:59
And so this is not advice that I would give everyone
12:03
because it was not calculated and it was not planned.
12:05
A lot of it was accidental and a lot of it I
12:08
will say was through relationships,
12:10
through networking, through professional relationships that I didn't even know I
12:13
had connections that I didn't even know I had.
12:16
So I guess part of my advice part is going to say
12:20
be sure that you maintain good relationships wherever you go
12:23
But when I was at the justice department and I began
12:26
to feel that I was not making a difference.
12:29
I actually was recruited by the Playboy company to work on
12:34
their casino project under the hotel's division of Playboy.
12:40
I it was not even a calculated risk.
12:42
Like I can only imagine that hit Hunter that came to you
12:46
that girl, that blonde girl with a perfect,
12:49
you know, like American accent that I don't even know she's
12:52
going to come from the justice,
12:54
you know, like from,
12:54
from the criminal is like being a prosecutor to come to the
12:57
casino business. How did that happen?
13:00
It happened in a rather strange way.
13:02
And if you have time,
13:03
I'll tell you the story.
13:04
But when I was leaving justice,
13:06
I worked for a short time for a congressional commission.
13:09
And we produced a report on the history of gambling in America
13:13
And as the report was published,
13:15
we went on a speaking tour and I happened to be on
13:18
the Today show interviewed by Barbara Walters,
13:20
by the way, speaking about this report and the man who
13:23
subsequently became my boss at Playboy saw that segment saw me called
13:29
got his head hunter to call me and bring me in
13:32
It was totally by accident.
13:33
It was not something I planned and it was not something I
13:36
expected. And I had never thought about working for Playboy.
13:39
But when the opportunity arose,
13:40
I thought to myself,
13:41
you know, this is a very untraditional job and this is
13:44
probably a once in a lifetime opportunity,
13:46
there'll always be law firms out there.
13:48
There'll always be something conservative that I can do.
13:50
But this is, this is an adventure and it was.
13:55
And then from there you from there,
13:57
I went to work for the Cunard Line Passenger Shipping Company
14:00
which at the time was a wholly owned subsidiary of a
14:04
British publicly traded company called Trafalgar House.
14:06
I knew absolutely nothing about admiralty law and the job of general
14:11
counsel involved safety of lives at sea.
14:14
So again, rather risky,
14:16
but I hired the best admiralty firms in New York and the
14:19
UK and learned from them.
14:21
And that was another adventure.
14:23
And you said that you have been working all your life.
14:26
The only condition is that it starts with ac criminal law,
14:29
casinos, cruise ships and cosmetics.
14:32
The only similarity is they all start with the letter C totally
14:35
different industry. I'm going to think about another industry with ac
14:38
and with Cynthia and Claudia CNC Latina Din.
14:44
Yes. Could you be our lawyer and everything else?
14:47
You know, now you're leading once a lawyer,
14:50
always a lawyer unless you get to sparred and I have not
14:52
been disbarred. But what I do for the company with
14:56
inclusion, diversity and equity,
14:58
it's important to know the law because it helps you to not
15:01
make mistakes. These companies,
15:03
you work that were probably on the extreme of not diverse,
15:08
right? Like playboy and a shipping company.
15:11
It was probably like a lot of men.
15:13
They were all male dominated industries,
15:15
the casino industry, certainly the justice department at the time,
15:19
they were predominantly white male.
15:21
The shipping company was diverse in terms of nationality because we had
15:26
Norwegians, we had Swedish,
15:27
we had Finnish, we had Greek,
15:28
we had different nationalities,
15:30
male male. It was their version of white males.
15:34
And how did you feel working there?
15:36
What did you actually have to hide?
15:38
What did you adjust?
15:40
And what did you use as your super differentiating power?
15:44
Well, early on when I was with the justice department,
15:47
I was trying to be as toned down as possible and to
15:50
dress as conservatively as possible.
15:52
And this was in the era where women who were in business
15:55
were wearing navy blue pinstripe suits with string ties and not particularly
15:59
attractive clothing. And that was just not me.
16:03
So I decided it was better to be myself and to be
16:06
real than to try to be something that I wasn't.
16:10
And I think I was accepted by virtue of the fact that
16:13
I was me and not trying to be one of the guys
16:16
So you've always been your authentic self.
16:20
after you change your name,
16:22
did your career. And then that was the last time that
16:26
you were trying to be someone you were,
16:28
I love that. And it seems to me that it
16:31
was like more than having to deny yourself with your name change
16:35
You were also trying to loophole the rules that were not
16:38
going to, that we were becoming barrier.
16:40
So you were going to just like bypass them a little bit
16:44
But I didn't let a barrier get me down.
16:47
I didn't let it get in my way when my grandmother said
16:49
eoo es para mujeres,
16:53
Why can't a woman do this?
16:55
We used to watch a TV program together and it was a
16:57
show. It was probably the equivalent of Law and Order back
17:00
then. But it was about a criminal defense attorney whose clients
17:03
were always innocent, they were always innocent and he spent the
17:07
entire hour of the program trying to find the guilty party so
17:10
he could get his client off and he would bring the bad
17:13
person to justice. And that's what I wanted to do.
17:15
That's where I felt I could make a difference.
17:17
And every time I saw this program and it was an all
17:20
male group of lawyers,
17:22
I thought, you know,
17:23
that doesn't have to be,
17:24
it doesn't have to be,
17:28
And then you started thinking about going to the company and they
17:33
had two rules for you,
17:35
right? You could have taken the General Council path or the
17:40
human resources, not the general counsel because that was a much
17:43
bigger company. The company that I worked for Cunard was a
17:46
small company and being general counsel for that was a different role
17:50
But they, I was spoken to about either a job
17:53
opportunity in the legal department or in the human resources department.
17:57
And it was at a time when we were acquiring a number
18:00
of brands, we acquired Mac,
18:01
we acquired Bobby Brown,
18:03
we acquired you name it,
18:05
keep going. And the HR department was,
18:08
was very heavily involved in the integration of those brands.
18:12
And the head of the HR department was a man who
18:15
referred to himself as a recovering attorney,
18:17
which is what I guess I am now.
18:20
He also came from the someone that I felt a great rapport
18:23
with. So I chose to go the human resources route.
18:25
How much do you think you chose it because of the person
18:28
that you were going to be reporting into or the vision that
18:33
But the person is very important,
18:35
the person you work for is extremely important.
18:37
Can you talk to us more about that?
18:39
Because I think a lot of people don't think about how important
18:42
it is. Statistically,
18:43
I think it's proven that the reason people leave jobs is because
18:46
of their manager, the major reason some leave because of compensation
18:50
some leave because of geographical relocation,
18:52
but most people leave their jobs because of their manager and I
18:55
think most people accept a job because of the person they're going
19:01
in this role, hr ST Order,
19:04
it's been a journey,
19:06
it's been like a couple of years that you've been with the
19:08
company 25 to be couple of them,
19:11
you have seen a transformation of diversity,
19:13
equity and inclusion. How has been the journey for you
19:17
in the company? Both as a Latina and you know,
19:20
like in the industry are extremely rewarding,
19:23
extremely rewarding. And when we started inclusion diversity and equity at
19:27
Estee Lauder, it was 20 years ago actually,
19:29
and it started as an EEO equal employment opportunity compliance function,
19:34
you're right. It was compliance,
19:36
it was compliance, of course,
19:41
but it grew into what it is today.
19:44
So I like to say it came from being a moment to
19:47
being a movement and it's been an incredibly successful movement in our
19:50
company in terms of employee engagement,
19:53
in terms of the growth of the acceptance of what we do
19:57
Our framework consists of employee resource groups,
20:00
events and education. We call them the three es and with
20:04
employee resource groups, we started with four in the United States
20:07
One of them being the Hispanic connection and we now have
20:10
45 chapters globally. So it's really been a fabulous journey and
20:14
a great supporting cast of characters from senior leadership from chairman and
20:20
And it's been a priority.
20:21
I mean, like you have so many countries that probably this
20:24
is really an important business imperative altogether to make sure that you
20:28
selling to the people,
20:30
you know, like that you're representing the people that you want
20:32
to attract and sell to.
20:33
Well, we sell our product in 100 and 50 countries and
20:36
that covers all aspects of diversity.
20:38
But I think the thing that's been important for our growth has
20:41
been the fact that we do not view inclusion,
20:44
diversity and equity as a one size fits all because diversity means
20:48
something different in different places of the world.
20:50
Inclusion generally means the same thing.
20:52
But equity might mean something different too.
20:54
So we have tailored our programs to fit the countries in which
20:58
we operate. The program that we developed for South Africa was
21:02
very different than the program we developed from Malaysia,
21:04
which was very different than the program we developed for Brazil.
21:07
So it's really been a bespoke approach to inclusion and diversity,
21:12
which is why I think it's been successful.
21:14
And what about the US,
21:16
your program in the US and particularly,
21:18
you know, like for Hispanics,
21:21
you have really interesting program that we know led by an
21:25
incredible Latina Gabin Natal.
21:26
Well, I don't know whether led by Gabby Natale,
21:28
but which she is part of it.
21:30
So tell us more about that the US as a whole and
21:33
then the Latino the Latino market,
21:37
of course, the US being our headquarters,
21:38
that's where the bulk of our activity has been.
21:41
And we have formed employee resource groups and we have dedicated
21:44
events and educational opportunities to all facets of of diversity that
21:50
includes race, ethnicity,
21:52
gender, sexual orientation,
21:56
generational diversity, which is very important for us,
21:59
disability inclusion, you name it,
22:02
we've covered in the United States and with respect to the Hispanic
22:05
group, we call it the Hispanic connection.
22:07
I mentioned that before they've developed two really wonderful programs to support
22:12
develop and mentor the Latinas in our organization.
22:15
One is for managers and below,
22:17
it's called Cafecito Sessions and it pairs a more junior Latino employee
22:23
with a more senior mentor in the typical mentorship type programming
22:28
And they both are Latinos,
22:30
not just the, the the mentee is Latino,
22:34
the mentor need not be.
22:37
And then the other program is a sponsorship program and that's called
22:40
Leading with high touch.
22:41
Gabby Natale is one of our speakers,
22:43
but it is actually led by the co chairs of the Hispanic
22:47
connection. It's a self developed and self led.
22:50
It's, it was created by Latinos for Latinos and it's
22:54
been very successful thus far,
22:56
we're in our second cohort.
22:57
What's the measure of success?
23:00
The measure of success is career movement and career movement need not
23:04
necessarily be a promotion,
23:05
it can be a promotion,
23:06
it can be a lateral move or it can even be a
23:09
stretch assignment that enables you to ultimately get to your career goal
23:13
So, out of our first cohort of leading with high
23:16
touch, we had a 52% mobility,
23:19
not all promotions, some laterals and some stretch.
23:22
So 52% of people that are touched and actually move is really
23:28
high. I would say no,
23:30
it's great and I think that it would be great to just
23:33
like hear a little bit more.
23:35
You were telling me a little bit more about that program so
23:38
like our audience that might be in a company that doesn't have
23:42
that good, you know,
23:43
so you have sponsors as well,
23:45
right? In that program,
23:46
we have sponsors as well.
23:47
I'm proud to be one of the sponsors.
23:49
My spons is a wonderful woman from Chile who is an attorney
23:53
So obviously, there's a connection there and the goal of
23:56
the program is to really provide the professional development tools that many
24:00
of the participants may not have had before in their career.
24:03
They may be the first in their family to go to college
24:06
the first in their family to work in corporate America,
24:08
the first in their family to come to the United States.
24:11
So we try to provide them with the opportunities and the learnings
24:14
that they may not have gotten along the way that will then
24:17
them to move to the next level in their career.
24:20
And I think that we have heard along all our guests,
24:23
how important it is to be aware,
24:24
like conscious of who you are so that you can take ownership
24:29
be yourself and how important that is.
24:31
And you were mentioning also a program on biases and stereotypes like
24:36
shadowing stereotypes ensuring that everyone has biases.
24:42
If you have a brain,
24:44
There are stereotypes, some of them are true,
24:46
some of them are not true.
24:47
So we hosted a program around stereotypes,
24:51
listing those that are common to your particular affinity group and then
24:57
listing those that are true.
24:59
And how if, if there are some that are true,
25:02
are they positive or are they negative?
25:04
And if they are negative,
25:05
how do we turn that around?
25:06
I think you call it flipping the script and we called it
25:09
shattering the stereotype. But it's interesting.
25:12
It's like, what's the stereotype?
25:13
Is it true or false?
25:15
And if it's, if it's false,
25:17
how do we shatter it?
25:18
And I think that where we come in is like if it's
25:20
true and it's positive,
25:22
how do we embrace it?
25:24
And how do we make sure that everyone,
25:26
not only the Latinos and the Latinas and Hispanics,
25:30
whatever you wanna call yourself.
25:31
But everyone in the company knows that those biases actually are
25:36
assets and that's where,
25:38
that's where I think that you start seeing more of the
25:41
peer and the manager consciousness taking place is that right?
25:45
I think that's true.
25:50
if you, if you want for a second,
25:51
because I know that we're with a legend here 25
25:57
years of seeing an industry that probably has changed so dramatically in
26:01
this, particularly embracing beauty and the people that you put on
26:04
the ads and the people that you put on the leadership and
26:08
what are the risks and how do we deal with?
26:12
how do we articulate a narrative in this anti de I
26:16
climate? How do we make sure that all practitioners or Latinos
26:19
within companies know how to continue forward without putting themselves,
26:25
you know, like at risk,
26:25
how do we navigate these troubled waters?
26:28
Well, one of the things that,
26:29
that we did early on and you know,
26:33
we call it ID and E and the reason is DNE,
26:35
I can say that I can do that.
26:37
But the reason is that we lead with the eye,
26:39
we lead with the inclusion because we knew from the beginning you
26:42
could have the most diverse workforce in the world.
26:44
But if you did not have an inclusive work environment,
26:47
you were going to lose that diverse.
26:48
So inclusion has always been important to us.
26:51
And inclusion means providing an environment where everyone feels valued and respected
26:55
regardless of who they are or where they come from.
26:58
And even with our employee resource groups which are formed around particular
27:01
identities. Our mantra is you don't have to be to belong
27:05
You do not have to be Hispanic to join the Hispanic
27:07
Er G you could be an ally,
27:10
you could be someone who wants to learn more about Hispanic culture
27:13
So we are more open than we are,
27:17
we are more inclusive than we are exclusive.
27:19
And I think that's been important for the growth of our function
27:22
So how I feel like diversity is easier to measure,
27:27
right? Like what percentage of your workforce is?
27:30
Yes of a diverse background.
27:31
How do you measure inclusion?
27:33
And is there any like what are the systematic ways in which
27:37
you enable inclusion? Well,
27:39
you enable it through either the employee resource group sense of community
27:43
the events, the educational programs that I mentioned before.
27:46
But but how you measure it really is through employee sentiment,
27:49
whether it's employee engagement,
27:51
employee surveys, you can also use as an indirect measure,
27:55
turnover, retention and in exit interviews when people are leaving the
28:00
company, why are you leaving?
28:02
Because I didn't feel included?
28:05
Yeah. So there are ways to measure we've even heard from
28:09
I think it was Elizabeth Nieto from Spotify.
28:12
She, she spoke about how we as Latinos should be taking
28:17
our interview process. When we're getting a,
28:19
we we're considering to take a job,
28:22
we should ask these questions and we should try to understand if
28:26
we will be accepted if we will be able to be ourselves
28:29
And she gave some advice on how to test the company
28:33
on. Is there real inclusion in the company?
28:37
Have you if, if you were interviewing now for a job
28:41
how would you assist if the employer?
28:44
Well, first I think I would do my homework and my
28:46
research before I asked the question,
28:47
but I would go to their sustainability reports,
28:50
their social impact reports,
28:52
they're publicly traded company.
28:53
So there's a lot of transparency in our reporting and I would
28:56
do my homework to find out what the status is of diversity
28:59
in the company. And then of course,
29:01
I would subtly ask the question.
29:04
I think today so much of what gets put on social media
29:06
can be misleading. So I'm not mentioning social media because it
29:11
can be accurate or it can be not accurate depending on who's
29:14
posting. But there's plenty of of public reporting out there
29:18
now that people looking for jobs can go to.
29:21
I mean, the thing with Mary Lou is that she was
29:23
doing ID, she was doing ID and D before.
29:27
It was cool before it was basically everybody was doing it
29:33
So it may be easier for you to say we're sticking
29:35
with the plan, it's working.
29:36
It's it has success from a business perspective.
29:39
We weren't following the trend and those who are just following the
29:43
trend to check a mark or to post on social media,
29:46
maybe the one saying maybe I should back.
29:47
Well, you're right because when we started this 20 years ago
29:53
it was something that we felt was part of our core values
29:55
and very much a part of the DNA of our company.
29:58
it's been able to grow over the time.
30:00
It's not something we just started in 2020.
30:03
So this is not a performative check the box type of an
30:06
initiative. But again,
30:08
based on the fact that we lead with the eye,
30:10
it's always been formed around the concept of inclusion,
30:14
inclusion for all. And is there any final thought on programs
30:19
that you think that are like great that you feel very proud
30:23
of or programs that have,
30:25
And you would say share some knowledge on this journey of inclusion
30:29
Well, I still think the employee resource groups as a
30:31
whole are, are really the jewel in our crown because they
30:34
have created a sense of community for our employees,
30:37
particularly during the lockdown during COVID when we were not in the
30:41
office, those employee resource groups held their members together,
30:45
held virtual events, held virtual cocktail hours or cafecitos or
30:50
whatever it happened to be and kept the momentum of the familia
30:54
that we had at Estee Lauder.
30:55
So I think employee resource groups have been an incredibly successful part
30:59
of our initiative in terms of failures.
31:01
I I don't think we've had a failure per se.
31:03
There's some groups that started,
31:04
that perhaps didn't catch on as well and they have faded out
31:08
over time. I think our educational programs have been very
31:11
important because they raise awareness.
31:13
And we like to say that awareness precedes action before you can
31:17
have an action. People have to be aware of the need
31:19
to take action. So the educational programs have been very important
31:23
I think in terms of the diversification of our
31:26
diversity initiative, that's been another important factor that what I said
31:30
earlier about one size does not fit all that's made it relevant
31:34
all over the world as opposed to only being us centric and
31:38
relevant in the United States.
31:43
I've worked in companies that have pretty robust employee resources group.
31:48
we have a pretty a large one,
31:50
but I've also worked in companies that have zero.
31:53
And I, I'm wondering if you have a framework for how
31:58
can we somebody like me or an employee?
32:02
Anybody listening, start an employee resource group.
32:05
Like what are the no brainer like?
32:07
These are the first steps you before you start that.
32:10
And I think that the first step is to make sure that
32:12
you have a group of people that,
32:14
that think like you that want to form this group.
32:17
The importance of these groups is that they must be grassroots,
32:20
they must be from the bottom up,
32:21
it must be the employees that want to have this group and
32:24
that it's not senior management saying you must have a Hispanic group
32:27
or you must have a group for black employees,
32:31
it has to come from the employees themselves.
32:33
And as long as it's self led and self governed,
32:36
then it's up to the,
32:37
the group itself to to lead the way.
32:41
But I think finding a group of like minded individuals is important
32:45
and when they come to us,
32:46
we always ask, are you the only one who wants to
32:49
have this group or do you have colleagues that want to join
32:51
you? And we think that 40 is about the minimum number
32:55
open an organization, the size of ours to form a group
32:58
Otherwise there's nobody to lead it.
32:59
There's nobody to actually do the work.
33:01
And I think that from the employee resource groups is where you
33:05
start seeing the need to create,
33:07
for example, the high touch.
33:08
That's right. It's it's the employee resource groups who have said
33:12
to us we want whatever it is they want,
33:14
we want professional development,
33:16
we want a mentorship program,
33:18
we have a mentorship program,
33:19
not only for the Hispanic group,
33:20
but also for our black er G,
33:23
our Asian er G and our LGBT Q er G.
33:26
They all have mentorship programs.
33:28
They don't all have sponsorship programs but they have mentorships and it
33:32
really comes from them asking for more Incorporated America,
33:36
the the most ceiling that we see is in the promotion
33:41
piece in the ha getting to the C Suite,
33:44
getting to senior management.
33:46
And that is one of the reasons we started this podcast to
33:50
make sure that we understand.
33:51
What are those blockages?
33:53
What are those things that we need to know?
33:54
What is a playbook that other Latinas have made it to?
33:58
I succeed, but also succeed being themselves.
34:01
And you have a couple of people in your organization that have
34:03
gone through that. And yet I think that promotion is the
34:06
piece that programs like the high touch are trying to solve
34:10
correct. Like how do you get from mid to Sydney
34:14
How do you get from mid level management to senior management or
34:17
in the case of Cafecito sessions?
34:19
How do you get from lower level management to mid level management
34:22
And what are the things that are successful there?
34:24
What, what has made because 52% of movement and a couple
34:29
of them higher is really good.
34:30
What, what is that is being unlocked in those areas?
34:33
Like the tips and tricks,
34:36
the company, the self confidence,
34:39
I think in our company,
34:40
one of the important factors,
34:42
success factors for anyone Latino or otherwise is building collaborative relationships and
34:47
maintaining those relationships. That's how we get things done is through
34:50
relationships, matrix organization,
34:53
right? And that's how we learn about one another.
34:58
If we want to cross functional lines for example,
35:01
or brand lines, how do we do that if we don't
35:03
know anybody outside of our brand,
35:05
if we're silo. So I think that entire internal networking connectivity
35:09
is incredibly important. And that's something we teach in the sponsorship
35:13
is how to network properly,
35:15
how to negotiate, how to present yourself in a,
35:18
in a professional way.
35:19
What are the cultural nuances of Latinos that they could be proud
35:23
of? My mother always said to me,
35:25
don't, don't talk with your hands.
35:26
You've seen me talk with my hands.
35:28
So some of the things she taught me,
35:30
I haven't quite learned yet well.
35:32
But the cultural nonsense that Claudia was talking about is if,
35:35
if your company operates in 100 and 50 countries in some countries
35:39
you will trust by going to somebody's house,
35:42
by going for drinks in other companies is by delivering output and
35:45
cross cultural competence is an important thing to learn because we can't
35:49
always assume that our culture is the same as the culture of
35:54
the country we're dealing with.
35:55
And so there might be nuances based on people's desire to
35:59
speak out at meetings versus those who are more quiet.
36:03
Are they more quiet?
36:04
Because they don't know the answer?
36:05
No, they're probably more quiet because they're more respectful of the
36:08
senior people in the room and they need to be called on
36:10
That's a cultural difference that we try to learn as we
36:14
go through. And what are those cultural nuances that you have
36:16
learned from Latinos or Latinas over the years that you
36:21
would say these are cultural nuances that peers managers and Latino should
36:25
be aware of as positive.
36:26
And then we can go into the negatives that need to be
36:29
you know, like dialed down or,
36:31
well, what are the positives I think comes with,
36:33
with passion and commitment and emotion,
36:36
not that you're gonna break down in tears at a,
36:38
at a meeting, but that you're going to speak with,
36:40
with true true passion about the subject matter that you are
36:45
trying to either sell or discuss.
36:47
And to me that's a positive,
36:49
there might be some who think of it as a negative.
36:51
I don't, I think also knowing when to speak up and
36:55
what to say, not just to speak for the sake of
36:59
hearing your own voice,
37:00
but to speak up when you have something important to say.
37:03
And I think Latinos are more aware of that perhaps than some
37:05
other groups because they don't want to make a mistake and say
37:09
the wrong thing. So they're very careful and thoughtful about when
37:12
they speak up and what it is they have to say and
37:15
maybe we should speak up a little bit too much.
37:18
We're expecting to be perfect in,
37:20
in the way in which we apply to a job or we
37:22
have that shyness. One of our characteristics is that of humility
37:27
humility. We are humble and that's not a bad thing
37:30
but it sometimes does get in our way when it comes
37:33
to speaking out in meetings.
37:34
And I've noticed it particularly on Zoom meetings which have become the
37:38
bane of our existence.
37:39
I think we get a lot of work done but it's,
37:41
it's not the same as being in person and not just Latinos
37:45
but junior people too,
37:47
of all races and ethnicities are less inclined to speak out at
37:51
a Zoom meeting because they don't know when to interject.
37:54
They don't want to interrupt the person speaking.
37:57
And by the time there's a pause in the conversation,
37:59
the topic has moved on to something else and their point is
38:02
no longer relevant. I think if you're in person,
38:05
there are ways that your body language can reflect that you have
38:07
something to say. You lean into the conversation or you raise
38:10
your hand or you wave at the person speaking to say,
38:13
but I can add to that,
38:15
but that's not possible as well.
38:17
And I think that's been a hindrance.
38:20
when COVID started and we started working from home,
38:23
I remember telling people that move away from where the headquarters are
38:28
and start working remotely are not gonna get promoted at the same
38:31
rate. There's no way.
38:32
And I saw the stat recently,
38:34
I mean, it's obvious how can you get promoted if you're
38:36
not having the informal conversations,
38:38
the meeting that happens before and after the meeting,
38:40
outside the meeting room.
38:42
So well, I I used to say we got a
38:44
lot done on our conversations in the ladies room or in the
38:47
pantry or in the hallway and,
38:49
and we missed that during COVID.
38:52
So just to summarize again the and then we wanna go,
38:56
I wanna go into your own identity but the superpowers that you
39:00
have seen of Latinos that can help and then you know,
39:03
like the, the things where we can flip the script,
39:06
emotional intelligence. Number one resilience,
39:10
adaptability. You said optimism.
39:13
Are you just writing the job description of a leader or what
39:18
No, I'm I'm thinking out loud right now.
39:21
But like those are characteristics that we want in leaders and the
39:25
fact that Latinas have them.
39:27
And yes, I did say optimism before and what about the
39:30
the things that we need to that are the stereotypes that
39:33
you think that we should flip the script,
39:36
the negatives, the negatives that could be positives or the negatives
39:39
that we should just like try to accept us.
39:42
Well, I think being,
39:44
being perceived as emotional can be taken as a negative depending on
39:49
the context. If someone is to say to you,
39:52
oh, she's too emotional.
39:54
What does that mean?
39:55
Ask the question? If what it means is she breaks down
39:58
and cries whenever I give her constructive feedback,
40:00
then that is a negative.
40:01
But if it means that she gets very excited and she starts
40:05
waving her hands around when she's talking about a particular project.
40:07
And that's a positive then that should be called come or enthusiast
40:11
So yes. So I think asking the question,
40:13
if somebody gives you a critical statement about someone asking the question
40:17
why or how or what does that look like is important
40:22
I've always wondered we,
40:23
we haven't touched on this.
40:25
Maybe you have a perspective on the idea that Latinos are a
40:28
little bit more used to hierarchy and following orders and respectful for
40:37
I don't know if that's always a good thing.
40:42
I think it depends on how high the authority is.
40:46
But like when, when is it good to be respectful of
40:50
author of the authority and when in an organization,
40:54
I think it's generally a positive to be respectful of,
40:58
of authority, but there are ways in which you can challenge
41:00
that authority that are not hostile,
41:04
controversial or confrontation. I would never call out a senior person
41:10
on a mistake that they made in a presentation in a room
41:12
full of people that would be suicide.
41:15
But to go to that person afterwards to point out that there
41:18
was an error and to do it respectfully would be appropriate.
41:22
So I think it depends on the circumstances.
41:25
We've heard a lot that Latinos sometimes are so thankful for having
41:29
the job that we don't want to rock the boat and part
41:34
exactly. So, in the spectrum,
41:36
I think we have to get back at moving from too humble
41:40
I don't want to rock the boat.
41:41
I don't challenge anything and being the opposite somewhere in the middle
41:46
and being able to move from one to the other.
41:48
So I wanna talk about you for a second.
41:50
So you said Marylou Marshall,
41:54
but always Maria Luisa Garcia in your heart.
41:57
Has Maria Luisa Garcia throughout your career?
42:01
Where were those moments?
42:03
I don't know anybody that didn't have dialed down at some point
42:06
And where were those moments?
42:08
Primarily at the beginning of my career of being the only woman
42:12
in the office, being a trial lawyer in a room full
42:15
of men. I couldn't be particularly emotional whether I wanted
42:20
was irrelevant. I just couldn't be in that setting.
42:23
So I think dialing down at the beginning was something I did
42:27
And I think that that's where,
42:29
that's where we have seen a number of people that have to
42:31
dial down their identity and their Latinidad in order to fit in
42:35
What about your superpowers?
42:36
Where have your superpowers as Latina come into play to
42:40
make you be where you are today here at Estee Lauder in
42:43
particular where I've, I've really been able to pursue my dream
42:46
of making a difference and I like to think that we all
42:49
have those of us who work in this field do make a
42:52
difference every day. And a lot of what I've been able
42:55
to, to express more at Estee lauder than,
42:59
than before is, is empathy,
43:01
caring for my colleagues,
43:02
caring for those around me.
43:04
We do a lot of good philanthropic work at the company
43:07
and that's been near and dear to my heart.
43:12
the work that I do has been a blessing for me and
43:14
I hope for the company as well.
43:16
Did you feel that way when you joined Estee Lauder companies or
43:22
Oh, it's definitely evolved over 25 years,
43:24
but I was very excited to join Estee Lauder.
43:27
I've been here 25 years now.
43:29
I'm only sorry I didn't get here sooner.
43:31
It's a wonderful company to work for and it's one that,
43:33
that fits me and my DNA particularly well.
43:36
I love the products.
43:38
I love the history of the company founded by a woman
43:42
I love working with a lot of really,
43:44
really terrific professional women experiences I did not have in the casino
43:48
business or in the cruise ship business or in the criminal law
43:50
business. So it's been a real reward for me to work
43:53
there. But over the years as I have moved through my
43:57
different roles at Estee Lauder,
44:00
it's really taken on a more important personal meaning for me
44:05
like you're lucky that you found your place,
44:08
right? Because most people probably spend their entire life in careers
44:11
that, or companies that are not quite perfect and you seem
44:14
to be in the perfect place for you.
44:16
My stepson tells me this all the time.
44:19
you really love your job,
44:21
don't you? And I said,
44:21
yes, you really love to go to work,
44:24
And he said, you're lucky because not many people do.
44:28
And again, what we're trying to do with the podcast is
44:31
to make sure that we understand and learn from the leaders,
44:37
the trailblazers like yourself that have made it so that we can
44:41
pass on that knowledge and allow other Latinas to make it in
44:45
half the time with half the bruises.
44:47
So if you, if you could go back and look at
44:50
yourself, what would be the advice that you would give to
44:53
yourself when you were,
44:55
you know, like 30 years ago?
44:58
I didn't know about mentorship and sponsorship.
45:00
When, when I was starting in my career,
45:02
I had mentors, but I didn't know that's what they were
45:04
And so I would want to have younger folks today
45:08
have a raised awareness of the importance of that and the difference
45:11
it can make in your career.
45:14
I'll give you the example that made a difference at the very
45:17
beginning of my career.
45:18
I had a woman law professor who was trying to talk me
45:22
out of wanting to be a criminal lawyer,
45:24
a trial lawyer. She wanted me to go into one of
45:26
those nice conservative law firms and have a quiet life.
45:30
And when she couldn't talk me out of it,
45:32
she made a connection for me that led to my being hired
45:36
by the organized crime section of the Department of Justice.
45:38
A job I would have never gotten on my own because I
45:41
wouldn't have known that there was an organized crime section of the
45:43
Department of Justice. So she was a mentor for me and
45:47
I didn't even know it.
45:48
I didn't know that's what she was.
45:49
I thought she was just a really great professor.
45:51
And, but I guess to follow up to that how
45:56
I thought the story was gonna be quite the opposite of like
46:00
this is the worst mentor I could ever have.
46:02
Like why she was trying to talk me out of something that
46:04
I actually really wanted and ended up being a good career move
46:07
So how do you know what,
46:11
when to listen to what your mentor is telling you and when
46:14
to ignore what your mentor is telling you?
46:17
I was just following my heart,
46:18
that was what I wanted to do.
46:19
And if I hadn't gotten a job with justice,
46:21
I would have wound up in a district attorney's office somewhere doing
46:25
different kind of work.
46:27
But I think you part of it is knowing what you
46:29
love because if you do what you love and you love what
46:32
you do, then you're not going to feel like you're working
46:34
And so following your heart is important and not being afraid
46:38
to change paths, not being afraid to take risks.
46:41
I watched one of your podcast with Marisa Solis from NFL and
46:46
she said that if she had to do differently,
46:48
she might have taken more risks and she might have wound up
46:51
being an ambassador after all,
46:52
which is what her dream job was.
46:54
What about you? Well,
46:55
I took a lot of risks and if I had not taken
46:59
those risks, where would I have wound up?
47:03
So you would, what would you have done different?
47:05
Looking backwards? What would I have done different?
47:10
I think I might have moved faster from one role to another
47:13
I've stayed in places for a very long time.
47:15
25 years being the longest,
47:17
but I was always 10 years,
47:19
11 years, eight years in a job.
47:22
and I probably could have gotten out of that comfort zone
47:26
faster and perhaps moved faster,
47:28
but I might have wound up in the same place.
47:31
So I don't know that it makes a difference.
47:35
and ask you for advice on what,
47:38
you know, who else shall we have here?
47:40
What would be your message to your younger you know,
47:43
like your younger audience out there,
47:45
like the Latinas that are listening to you that want to be
47:48
a lawyer. There's only 1% of Latinos that are a lawyer
47:52
less than 0.5% of Latinas that are lawyers.
47:56
Well, otherwise would you tell someone,
47:59
I think you cannot go wrong by getting a law degree because
48:02
a law degree will stand you in good stead no matter what
48:05
you choose to do in life.
48:06
If you go into business,
48:07
if you decide not to practice law,
48:10
that law degree is never going to hurt you.
48:12
So I highly recommend,
48:13
in fact, I'm a cheerleader for women,
48:15
going to law school.
48:16
And my law school at the University of Miami has a very
48:19
high percentage of women.
48:20
So I encourage you if you're a woman to apply to the
48:23
University of Miami Law School,
48:25
she's also on the board.
48:26
So if you need a connection,
48:28
you know, Latinas helping Latinas,
48:30
I always say that I want to have lawyers in my friends
48:33
I, I don't know that I would have been a
48:34
good lawyer, but I want to have a lot of lawyers
48:36
in my circle so I can ask them for advice.
48:38
It's such a valuable like mindset mindset clarity as well.
48:43
And in today's world,
48:44
there is a joint degree,
48:45
it's a joint JD law degree and MB A which you
48:49
can get in a compressed period of time if that had existed
48:52
when I went to school,
48:53
I might have done that because I always thought that business would
48:56
be a fallback. If for any reason,
48:57
the law didn't work out for me,
48:58
business would be a fallback.
49:00
And now that they have that joint degree,
49:02
I highly recommend that one as well.
49:03
So who else shall we have here?
49:05
Who else is going to allow the young Latinas to get a
49:08
playbook the way that you have guided us?
49:10
Well, that's an easy question for me to answer because I'm
49:13
going to say one of my wonderful colleagues at Estee Lauder Michelle
49:16
Frere, who is the global brand president for Clinique and Origins
49:20
She is a true force of nature.
49:22
She's inspirational. She's fun and obviously very talented,
49:27
very smart. Let's bring her on Marilou Marshall.
49:30
What an incredible pleasure having you here.
49:33
Thank you for sharing your story for your vulnerability,
49:35
for your generosity. Thank you.
49:37
It's my pleasure to be here and thank you because thanks to
49:40
your story, we're gonna inspire other people to lead a Latina
Series