00:00
Hola. I'm Claudia Romo Elma and I'm Cynthia Cleo Milner.
00:03
And this is a podcast,
00:04
a La Latina, the playbook to succeed being your authentic self
00:07
today, ELISA Botero,
00:09
partner at Cortez, an international law firm.
00:12
And here are the three key takeaways.
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Number one, how going through a difficult personal situation propelled her
00:20
forward. It allow her to overcome imposter syndrome,
00:23
put things in perspective and become more of a risk taker.
00:27
Number two, how she has carved out space for herself by
00:30
focusing on innovation and new industries.
00:33
And number three, how she became a partner in a legal
00:35
firm and understand the sacrifices that came with it.
00:39
All of that and more here at a la Latina,
00:41
stick around Cynthia. You're the chief marketing Officer of Money Lion
00:54
Money Lion is a finance app that was created to help everyone
00:58
make better financial decisions because the financial services industry has historically been
01:03
very focused on people that already have Money and Money Lion for
01:07
the last 10 years has been building products for the average American
01:11
products that will actually help you reach your financial dreams.
01:15
I'll give you. The example of our raw money account,
01:17
which is a banking product that has all the features of premium
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The list goes on and on.
01:30
But we also build some very unique features for people like our
01:35
Latino community. We have something called round ups if you have
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spare change, instead of just spending it on whatever you can
01:43
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And for those moments when your paycheck hasn't arrived and you need
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We have a product called Inst Cash and you can get up
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We also have educational content that is really fun to watch,
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but actually helps you make financial decisions and a community of what
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we call money lions like our Latinos who help each other out
02:06
in their journey to the American dream in this podcast,
02:10
the great Eliza Botero.
02:12
It's such a pleasure to have you here with us today.
02:15
Such a pleasure. Thank you so much for the invitation.
02:18
You have an incredible story.
02:19
You're the first lawyer that we have in the podcast.
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We want to know everything about you.
02:23
Do you wanna talk to us a little bit about your background
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your values that you were brought up with?
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Yeah. So I was brought up in Colombia.
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I'm originally from Medellin which is yeah,
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cafe. I grew up in Bogota though I went to law
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school in Colombia. When I was 24 I had just graduated
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law school. My dad was appointed at a position in,
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in DC in Washington.
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So I found myself moving to the US.
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Right after graduating law school in Colombia,
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I worked for two years at the Inter American Development Bank,
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which is a Development Bank in DC.
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So I was there for two years.
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Then I did my Masters at Columbia University in New York,
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which is the exam to qualify to practice in New York.
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And I joined Curtis right after I graduated from my masters.
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So that was in 2010 and I've been at Curtis for 14
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years. That was like the shortest summary of my entire life
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So you grew up in Colombia?
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I did medellin. Medellin.
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I actually grew up in Bogota,
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but I feel very paisa at heart,
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which is how you call the people from the Medellin region.
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And why, why did you,
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is that like a common career for a woman in Colombia?
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I actually remember going to law school and all the good students
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were all women, all women.
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although parents never want to determine what their kids do,
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both my parents are attorneys and it's just kind of,
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it's what you see at home and I don't know,
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it just felt right for me I've also very,
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always been very, very bossy,
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I guess since I was a child,
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very, very determined,
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very argumentative, very kind of rational structured.
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So I thought those were kind of skills that lent itself to
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becoming a lawyer. Also in Latin America,
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we don't have like the flexibility here where you have like so
04:23
many majors you have to choose when you're 18,
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like seven or eight careers and you're an architect,
04:35
it, it, it just seemed like right for me.
04:37
So then you move here and unlike many people that I know
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that moved to the US as lawyers and then didn't practice because
04:45
it sounds like you don't have to study again law,
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but you have to pass the bar like the laws are different
04:51
in different countries. So how was your transition from being a
04:54
lawyer in Colombia to then becoming a lawyer in the US?
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Well, funnily enough,
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there wasn't much of a transition because I never got to practice
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in Colombia. I came to the US right out of law
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school rather. So that was actually a challenge because in trying
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to find work here when I graduated from my LLM,
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I had no background that I could kind of leverage in that
05:16
process. So it actually forced me to think about,
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ok, how can I stand out,
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what do I bring to the table that differentiates me from attorneys
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that graduated in the US.
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what I thought is I speak three languages because I also speak
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Portuguese, obviously Spanish.
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OK, I've always been very flexible in my interest.
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I just, I like doing things well,
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but I'm interested generally in many areas of the law.
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OK, where are languages relevant?
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And I found this area of the law which is called arbitration
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which is essentially international disputes,
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international arbitration. So I really kind of saw myself as having
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an advantage in that area.
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And in fact, that's how I was hired at Curtis because
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they needed Spanish speakers in that,
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for international arbitration. So it was an area where my international
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skills were valued. So,
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you know, that's how I entered the firm.
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And then once you're inside,
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it's obviously easier to kind of navigate within.
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And I've expanded from that,
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but it was initially that international aspect that helped me transition if
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that makes sense. And you've been there for 14 years,
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14 years. So I've done my whole career since I was
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a first year associate until becoming partner in 2020.
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So it took you 10 years to become a partner.
06:45
It took me 10 years shorter than normal,
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longer than normal. That's about right.
06:51
That's about right. How do you become a partner in a
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law firm besides being a lot?
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I love this question.
06:57
It's not a very transparent process to be frank and it just
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like it's clouded in mystery.
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And someone told me once you are not made partner,
07:09
you make yourself partner in 2019.
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So after nine years at the firm,
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I pitched the firm on opening up Bogota office.
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I really wanted to go back to Colombia.
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My husband is also Colombian.
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I wanna kind of expand what I can do.
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I also thought it may be harder for me to find clients
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So I want to go to kind of my roots my network
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hey, I want to open an office in Bogota.
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At the time, the law firm had 17 offices around the
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world. This was meant to be the number 18.
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I want to open an office in Bogota.
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I want to go back there and explore the market and they
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said, yes, I created a business plan.
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I'm like, this is why Colombia makes sense.
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They said yes. So I moved back to Colombia in 2019
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started doing like exploratory work and like finding meetings,
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but I was an associate at the time.
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And I, at one point,
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I was like, this is absolutely ridiculous.
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I can't like ask for more meetings with senior people being an
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associate. I need to be my partner now.
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Otherwise, like this project will fail I mean,
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I need to be seen as senior to get business.
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So January 2020 I was like,
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I need to be partner.
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You can actually make me a partner or just give me the
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title partner whatever you want.
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But I need this in order to actually make this happen.
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So I was made partner.
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So to your question,
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how do you become a partner?
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I I asked to be one.
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Why do we have so little Latina partners in legal firms?
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Why is it connected to readiness?
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Not asking? Or could it be that very similar to the
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relationship that we have with power?
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We don't wanna do it because of the sacrifices imaginary or not
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It means that we're gonna have to have the 150 100,000
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hours a week that you have to work.
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The what, what it means.
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So why look, I'm not going to sugar coat it.
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It's not an easy profession.
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It does require a lot of hours and I definitely put in
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the time and which is what?
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Well, the target in at firms to get a bonus is
09:24
So that means that if you're working at that stage is because
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you're working very hard.
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So I would, I would bail.
09:31
I would have years that I would have 2200 hours.
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So it was definitely intense,
09:37
I think now because it's also my,
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I have more ownership of what I do.
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It doesn't feel so bad because I've integrated my work into my
09:47
life and my life into my work,
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which I think has been crucial.
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But at the time when I was a junior attorney,
09:55
my life and that makes it harder.
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But if you're thinking of building a community within your work,
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then it, it doesn't feel that hard to work so hard
10:06
because you're with your friends and you're like,
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oh, I enjoy so much being here.
10:09
Of course, it comes as sacrifice.
10:11
I don't have Children.
10:12
I've decided not to have Children.
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So in my personal case,
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it wasn't a, you know,
10:18
a decision about like family or career,
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but kind of going back to your question,
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why don't we have more Latinas?
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It's, it's more than a Lati Latino problem.
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It's actually a female problem.
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There is a female problem on top of that.
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Exactly. Because we have that dual kind of identity.
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So we're a double minority if you will.
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But it's not an issue of pipeline because the stats for female
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male, female participation in law school is like almost 5050
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or a little bit more skewed on the female side.
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But then it's like that growing and,
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and going up the ranks that really hurts us.
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It's not how you retain that talent.
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And unfortunately, yeah,
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I think a lot of women decide it's too hard.
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And, yeah. So it is from our side,
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the sacrifices or the choices that we have to make,
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whether like being a partner really does come with extra hours,
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it does come with extra.
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when you become a partner,
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I think you, if you manage it,
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well, it could be less,
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it could be less and you could have a more balanced life
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that hump that you have to go through because at the beginning
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it is very so in order to get your way 2000 to
11:39
100 hours when you partner 2000 hours,
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like around or something like that.
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yeah, choice. But also the environment that is very male
11:52
dominated, it is very male dominated and it is very one
11:55
culture even if it's a global firm where,
11:59
I think that there's,
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that lack of understanding of cultural nuances,
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stereotypes tell us more.
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Yeah. So in fact about stereotypes,
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I actually teach a seminar Curtis called implicit bias in the legal
12:13
profession because this was something that was really interesting to me.
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And I mean, there's,
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you know, a million studies that show that,
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you know, women and other out groups is the kind of
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technical term for it are judged more harshly,
12:30
requirements are applied more stringently.
12:34
Our performance is attributed to receiving help or,
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you know, just being lucky instead of being competent So I'm
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very aware that that's the case.
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these are the cards that we are dealt and we have to
12:50
play to our advantages.
12:54
I'm very aware of the stats,
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very aware of why the stats are,
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you know, I'm just gonna trace my own path honestly because
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what do we do then like sit around and just,
13:08
and then what I did at the law firm is first teach
13:11
others about this. So that's how I kinda started creating cultural
13:15
change. And then I also realized that why am I sitting
13:19
back and letting me living in this culture rather than me being
13:24
like an agent of change in this culture.
13:27
And what I've found is that if I take the leadership,
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people are receptive, you know,
13:32
it's just you can create the culture you want to work
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yes, the culture is male dominated.
13:40
Yes, it's hard because of the different cultural nuances.
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But also you can change it,
13:47
you can flip the script,
13:48
you can kind of be the agents of change and you acting
13:52
differently. People will react differently,
13:55
you know, something that is very characteristic of us Latinas is
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that we're very, we're emotional and we're passionate and I used
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to kind of hide that.
14:04
But then I had a very difficult personal situation.
14:08
My, my husband went through a very difficult disease and,
14:13
and an American would normally be so guarded about that and never
14:17
tell anyone what they're experiencing.
14:20
I just like shared it with anybody that would listen and people
14:25
were like, maybe caught off guard a little bit because they're
14:30
she's like sharing all these details about like a personal diagnosis and
14:34
all the situations that revolved around on that.
14:36
And then what I found is that everyone responded to that vulnerability
14:41
with vulnerability. They wanted to cheer me on,
14:44
they supported me even more.
14:46
So I, I made that choice of like,
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I could just keep on with the culture and not share what
14:53
I'm going through or I can be like super open.
14:56
And what I I saw is that,
14:58
that caused a change in everyone and then everyone was more affectionate
15:02
towards me and more caring and more.
15:06
So I'm like, oh my God,
15:08
kind of changing the whole dynamic and the whole culture just by
15:12
being sincere about like a personal challenge.
15:15
And that's how I again started integrating my life with my work
15:19
because I thought like these are the people I see all every
15:21
day. Why wouldn't they be a part of something that personally
15:25
is affecting me so deeply and that they can be,
15:28
they can offer support,
15:30
but also personally and you know,
15:32
they went and donated blood for my husband and all those things
15:36
But if I had never shared,
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how would they know I feel like the really hard work happens
15:42
earlier in your career and then you have more.
15:44
Exactly. Well, hopefully if you've done things correctly.
15:48
how do you do things correctly?
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Well, I spend a lot of time building a team and
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that means that I can now focus on other things that are
15:59
which of course is important,
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but as I was mentioning to you guys before the call,
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ultimately, law firms are a business and the role of
16:09
a partner is to bring revenue to the firm.
16:14
you know, just generalizing here.
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But there's two ways to bring revenue,
16:18
I can bring clients or I can just work hours and bill
16:25
for that time. And I decided that I wanna get business
16:31
I wanna work for my own clients.
16:33
I want people working for my clients.
16:35
So in the ideal world,
16:37
it would be more balanced.
16:39
You would work for clients and get clients both because you need
16:44
both, right? You do need partners that are experienced to
16:47
do work work. So exactly and good sales people,
16:52
but not everyone is also suited for sales,
16:55
not everyone wants to work endlessly.
16:58
But within that kind of continuum of billing time getting new clients
17:04
I'm kind of more on this edge.
17:07
So I like going after clients,
17:10
going after clients. So it means that well,
17:14
first, I've been able to go after clients because I've built
17:18
a team. So I've built a team that I can delegate
17:22
actual work to. And then I have,
17:24
I put so much time in training my team literally from like
17:30
this is how you create a table of contents.
17:32
And in word to like this is how you think about this
17:36
big legal problem. Anyway,
17:38
so I've put so much time that they're like replicas of me
17:43
I've like managed the act of like cloning myself because I've
17:49
put in so much time that I trust 100% what they're doing
17:53
So that means that I can put them to work and
17:57
focus on getting more.
17:58
And then when I get more,
18:00
I'll get more people and they,
18:03
they'll be able to drain those people and will create an organization
18:07
But some of the partners haven't done that.
18:08
So they continue to work endlessly and tirelessly.
18:13
Yeah. Well, but maybe they haven't done that because not
18:16
everybody can be a good manager that maybe teach yourself.
18:19
But I think there's this fallacy or this like the way that
18:22
corporate ladders and it sounds like in,
18:24
in the legal world is the same.
18:26
It's, you're a great individual contributor.
18:29
So you are rewarded with a team.
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I mean, that's crazy.
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You can be an excellent manager and a bad individual contributor or
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the other way around and then you're a great manager and you
18:39
are rewarded with becoming a leader,
18:41
which again, you can be a great leader and a bad
18:44
manager or the other.
18:45
So, how did you become a good manager?
18:48
What was your playbook to become a good manager?
18:50
Well, first, let me say something about what you're saying
18:53
which I agree completely and in the legal profession that is
18:58
enhanced because law firms,
19:00
specially my firm and other kind of medium sized firms are not
19:06
professionally managed, meaning that they're managed by the same attorneys,
19:09
which is trippy because it means that it's attorneys,
19:16
you know, dealing with personnel matters,
19:18
handling, marketing and finances where,
19:22
where there's like complete professions dedicated to those areas.
19:29
of course, you have an hr department,
19:31
but it's not like what you have at a technology company or
19:34
a big bank that it's people thinking about how you develop people
19:38
It's just attorneys thinking about developing people.
19:41
So those managerial skills are just not necessarily natural to attorneys and
19:47
nobody teaches you how to do that.
19:49
I have to say that leading has always been very natural to
19:56
leading or managing leading and mentoring and mentoring.
20:02
Yes. Unfortunately, for my cousins,
20:04
but my idea of play was setting up a,
20:07
a school in my doll house and my,
20:11
So my grandma would force all my cousins to attend school.
20:15
always since I was a child,
20:18
I was like, do homework,
20:19
da da da. So it really came organically to me,
20:23
but I do also feel that part of becoming a good manager
20:28
is setting very clear expectations and I so that people can deliver
20:33
and providing, you know,
20:34
good feedback. I don't know if that's necessarily a playbook.
20:37
But again, that kind of came all naturally to me.
20:40
How do we know from what you're saying in a firm like
20:43
yours? How do we know if Latinas are good for becoming
20:46
lawyers? Because they could be great sales persons,
20:49
they could be great managers,
20:50
they could be great followers.
20:52
what is it to be lawyers,
20:54
good lawyers, good partners.
20:56
I think the legal profession is about building trust with your clients
21:05
And I think Latinas are well suited to build trust because
21:12
I think caring and so warm having the ability to connect personally
21:18
I think it's such a superpower and I,
21:20
I think that makes us great attorneys because it helps build trust
21:25
build that intimacy with someone that has an issue that you
21:31
So I think that's one key thing.
21:34
I also think we're very,
21:36
you know, passionate,
21:37
persistent and that is very crucial because again,
21:41
you kind of have to pound pound,
21:43
pound pound in order to get somewhere.
21:46
And I know we haven't touched on this,
21:49
but I, I started the A I Artificial Intelligence initiative at
21:54
my firm and I started it two years ago and the number
21:59
of notes that I like from senior partners of like this is
22:03
ridiculous, blah, blah,
22:04
blah, this is so dangerous.
22:06
And I was just like,
22:07
but why, what did you,
22:09
why did you know because you could have also picked like the
22:13
metaverse which no longer nobody talks about.
22:16
what was about a I that you thought this not only that
22:19
like a building on that like you,
22:21
you seem to be on a very male dominated area,
22:25
but also seems to be strategic that you have chosen to go
22:28
into energy or into area.
22:31
Yeah, so my two industry focus areas are energy broadly
22:37
and I guess technology more broadly and for energy,
22:41
it was just a matter of,
22:44
I was an associate and I was put in on all a
22:46
lot of energy matters.
22:47
My firm does a lot of work in hydrocarbons,
22:52
you know, I had no choice in that,
22:54
but I really found kind of a passion for that industry
23:00
It's like from technical perspective,
23:03
really interesting. And then when I became a partner and I
23:06
had that in industry expertise,
23:11
how am I gonna get a big energy company to hire me
23:16
instead of the man likely that is 30 years,
23:20
my senior that has been working with them in oil and gas
23:23
matters for 60 years.
23:26
they're not gonna switch just it's just they're not gonna do it
23:31
OK, so how do I go to what's next within my
23:34
industry? So at the time and this was 2021 it wasn't
23:39
that long ago, but I,
23:40
I saw that there was growing interest and like the energy sector
23:46
in hydrogen, which is a new kind of low carbon alternative
23:51
And this was literally a strategic play that I didn't know
23:54
was gonna work. It actually eventually did work.
23:57
OK, so I'm gonna own within my area,
24:01
something that is new.
24:03
So my clients, future clients don't have to take away from
24:08
their traditional advisor, legal advisor to give to me because that's
24:16
Like someone that is 30 years,
24:18
my senior male or female has quite a bit of advantage on
24:23
even though I have great experience,
24:25
it's just being realistic.
24:27
If you have a 20 year relationship,
24:28
it's hard to switch.
24:30
So I'm like, you know,
24:31
I'm just gonna start af freshh within what I know,
24:33
capitalizing on my experience,
24:36
but something new. So I was like,
24:38
I'm just gonna focus on hydrogen.
24:40
I wanna only talk hydrogen.
24:43
I developed a seminar on hydrogen.
24:46
Long story short, that was the way in into one of
24:49
the largest energy companies in,
24:51
in Latin America who's now my client that was a strategic strategic
24:55
plan. Now, the piece that I am curious about is
24:58
and then it comes another Latina barrier which is we don't have
25:04
as an expertise, self advocacy promotion,
25:07
self promotion. We don't put our name out there.
25:09
We get things done as opposed to getting credit.
25:11
And in order to make yourself known to get clients to know
25:15
that you are going to do that,
25:17
you do need to invest in being in the editorial board of
25:21
magazines or doing that.
25:23
My, my sister is going exactly through that.
25:27
I can't understate how important it is to put all that
25:31
time. That is not billable into building your profile.
25:35
What flipped the script for me is that I as an associate
25:40
oh, why is the firm not doing this?
25:41
Not doing that. And then when I became a partner and
25:44
I saw it from the partner perspective,
25:48
they're not deciding not to give me a role.
25:51
Nobody has thought about it.
25:53
So I'm just gonna do it and that's just has been my
25:58
I learned a saying the other day from a client and I'm
26:01
gonna say in Spanish,
26:04
Yeon, Toros, Agua eros and Iy A Tos Agua eros
26:10
in every, in every rain,
26:12
meaning that I'm like,
26:14
I just see a problem and I'm like,
26:15
OK, nobody's tackling that.
26:17
I'm just gonna take it,
26:18
I'm just gonna take it.
26:19
I'm just gonna take it.
26:20
So I never, once I kinda saw that problems weren't being
26:25
solved. Becau not because they were like,
26:28
we want it this way.
26:29
This is what we want,
26:30
but nobody was just taking it on.
26:33
So I just took that leadership.
26:36
I just literally was like,
26:38
I'm this II I tell when I'm,
26:40
when I'm doing all this A I stuff and I'm meeting with
26:42
vendors on, with A I tools that we're trying to on
26:45
board. I say I'm the self appointed Innovation officer at my
26:50
firm because it was literally,
26:53
I wanna do and they're like,
26:56
I don't wait for people to open that space for me.
27:01
I'm creating my own opportunities.
27:02
And the last piece on this is how do you know,
27:07
critically important to do self promotion?
27:09
Yes. How do you do it on top of having to
27:12
be a manager and a salesperson,
27:14
Anna this, how do you get advice on how to do
27:16
self promotion? And I actually had a coach,
27:20
professional and all business development coach.
27:25
What she taught me about self promotion is that and this really
27:30
helped me because it was so it's so obvious now,
27:34
but it was so kind of this big realization at the time
27:38
was about like linkedin really?
27:41
And she's like linkedin should be 80% about elevating others offering value
27:51
and only 20% or maybe 10 about self promotion.
27:57
So everything is self promotion in the end because anything,
28:01
everything I say on that platform will come back to me,
28:06
but I can do it in a way of not being like
28:09
I'm so proud to be ranked as a so it comes so
28:16
unnatural. It's just so ridiculous.
28:18
So I can do that 10% of the time because you do
28:23
I don't know, I recently I was ranked as the one
28:26
of the 100 top female attorneys by Latin Vex,
28:31
you should have told us that when we were doing
28:33
this., you're right,
28:36
you are right for the fourth year in a row.
28:40
I was ranked as the one of the top 100 female attorneys
28:44
in Latin America. So I have to say that,
28:46
you know, that's a post,
28:48
but then the other 80% of the time,
28:50
what I'm doing is like,
28:51
I saw this piece of news about what's happening in the legal
28:55
field, for whatever hydrogen.
28:58
So these are my takeaways.
29:00
So I'm offering like value,
29:03
I'm offering value. People are like,
29:05
oh, she saved me reading that article because like she already
29:08
analyzed it. She already,
29:10
you know, got takeaways,
29:12
but obviously that's coming back to me and you really need to
29:15
tell people like, how will people hire me for their A
29:21
I related work if they don't know that I'm doing that.
29:25
So you really have to put yourself out there and tell people
29:28
what you're interested in so that people can find you.
29:32
Yeah, I feel like we've,
29:34
like, gone around but we haven't really gone in the topic
29:38
of your husband and I know you offer to talk about it
29:42
So I'm just gonna take that over if you can share
29:45
with our audience what you went through.
29:47
I would love for you also to connect it to the super
29:50
power first. Your super power,
29:52
how, how those superpowers as a Latina woman help you overcome
29:57
And what happened with work?
29:59
Like how did you survive?
30:01
Yeah. So my husband was diagnosed with cancer during the pandemic
30:07
It was December of 2020.
30:09
We were living at in Colombia at the time.
30:12
As you recall from earlier in the conversation,
30:14
I had become a partner in January of 2020.
30:17
Then the pandemic started.
30:18
So we were working remotely from Colombia.
30:21
The treatment started there.
30:22
Unfortunately, it went horribly wrong.
30:25
But I had the great,
30:28
you know, blessing of having the possibility of having insurance
30:33
here and I'm also an American citizen.
30:37
So I literally spent my 2020 bonus on an air ambulance to
30:43
bring him to New York to be treated here at a hospital
30:47
specializing in cancer.
30:49
My husband was fully disabled for a year he was in
30:54
a wheelchair. for about four months,
30:58
this was all through a pandemic and I didn't work at all
31:03
for six months. How did I handle that?
31:08
So I was saying earlier in the conversation first,
31:10
I was so open with everyone at the firm again,
31:14
it was just such a crisis that it was impossible to hide
31:20
it. It was just like consuming my whole life.
31:26
very open with everyone.
31:29
And what I received was just support.
31:32
I would call one of my senior partners.
31:35
I don't know when I'll be back to work.
31:37
I literally, I'm a caregiver all day.
31:40
I mean, my husband needs my support 24 hours of the
31:45
day. I can't lose my job because I can't lose my
31:49
medical insurance. And he's like the only way you will lose
31:53
your job and your medical insurance is if we go bankrupt,
31:57
you will not lose your job or your medical insurance,
32:01
worry about the important things.
32:03
So again, being a human allows others to be humans.
32:07
So I was so thankful and it kind of reignited that commitment
32:13
to my work that my work was there for me personally.
32:17
And then everyone surrounded me.
32:19
My associates would connect with me at odd hours of the day
32:24
when I had like my computer in the hospital.
32:27
So ee everyone kinda adapted my parents.
32:30
And this is an amazing blessing that we have as Latinos my
32:33
parents moved in with me.
32:35
So only when my parents moved in with me,
32:37
I was a, I was able to go back to work
32:40
remotely because, you know,
32:42
literally my mom took care of everything that,
32:47
you know, is involved in running a,
32:49
a household. So I started working again.
32:55
The first few months,
32:56
it was actually very curious because work became a refuge.
33:03
It was the only area of my life that hadn't exploded.
33:07
It was also something that I was good at and could like
33:11
help me escape the the very difficult situation we were going through
33:16
So I was actually very happy to have that and still
33:22
everything was remote. So I had the flexibility to kind of
33:24
stop go to a hospital,
33:26
you know, spend the day there.
33:28
It's very long hours at the hospital.
33:31
I could like to do it at the same time,
33:34
people had adjusted to my new schedule.
33:38
So it was very reactive of the time,
33:39
just kind of barely surviving.
33:42
But then as my husband's treatment progress,
33:45
and I saw him very slowly recover from that initial kind of
33:50
shock, which was very hard on on both of us
33:54
mentally and for him,
33:55
obviously, especially for his body as he started walking again,
33:59
all those things, I started becoming more proactive and I have
34:05
so much clarity as to how that has impacted me on the
34:08
professional side. Because it really has in a really odd way
34:12
propelled me forward.
34:14
And the two ways that it has done that is first I
34:18
had horrible impostor syndrome.
34:21
I was like, oh my God,
34:23
I am so insecure about my experience.
34:26
I have an accent that are,
34:27
you know, all the things that we suffer as Latinas and
34:30
as women and, my husband's disease oddly cured me of
34:35
my imposter syndrome because I was like,
34:38
oh my God, I've handled so much,
34:42
so much that I have like,
34:45
so much power, like,
34:49
you know, I can take on every anything and everything.
34:54
some would say I went too far on the other end because
34:57
sometimes I'm like someone,
34:58
well, I, I don't know,
34:59
doesn't hire me as a client or goes to another firm.
35:02
I'm like, definitely your loss,
35:04
definitely your loss. And I say that with like full,
35:08
I mean, fully convinced that that's the case.
35:12
But then the other thing that it did for me,
35:14
that experience on the personal side is that after I've dealt with
35:19
life and death situations,
35:21
everything gains just a lot of perspective.
35:25
So anything from work just doesn't seem as important.
35:29
But it, that's not a,
35:33
not of being jaded of like,
35:35
oh, it doesn't matter.
35:36
And I'm like, just detached from it,
35:38
but actually, like I care about it,
35:40
but this really is not life and death and then I guess
35:44
the third way, which is connected to this is that I
35:47
was kind of more risk averse and I think that's something attorneys
35:50
are known for. And I'm very,
35:54
what's the opposite of being risk averse risk taker?
35:58
Because I'm like, you know,
36:00
what the heck. So I'll be,
36:05
messaging people on linkedin and,
36:07
like, just, just doing it and then if it doesn't
36:11
work out, like nothing happened.
36:13
But because it really,
36:15
it doesn't, none of the risks that I'm taking in my
36:19
career or my profession are really risks.
36:22
I mean, it really is not life and death.
36:26
wow, it like opened this whole world of like being just
36:31
more bold. Is this through this experience that you decided not
36:35
to have Children? Yeah,
36:37
it was, it was partly through this experience.
36:39
Oddly enough, this is getting really personal,
36:43
but I wanted to have Children.
36:48
Well, I thought I wanted to have Children.
36:50
I went through IBF several several times.
36:54
The last one of my IV F rounds was actually
37:01
And after that, that failure,
37:04
after repeated failures of my treatment,
37:07
I went to a psychiatrist because I was like,
37:11
everything is medically. OK.
37:13
What what's happening?
37:17
So I went to a psychiatrist that specialized in,
37:19
in kind of fertility issues.
37:24
I talked, she knew me from prior sessions that I
37:27
had with her and I was like,
37:29
so this is why I have when I have Children.
37:31
This is why I don't have when I have Children.
37:34
ok, just tell me everything.
37:39
I don't think you want Children.
37:42
what? It just took me by surprise.
37:46
She's like, I don't think you want Children.
37:52
And then the pandemic started,
37:53
which of course meant that I had to stop my treatment and
37:57
then my husband got sick and then one thing led to another
38:01
But like at the other end of this four years later
38:06
what I realized that I didn't want Children.
38:09
it's so hard to accept that because it's,
38:11
it really is not the common societal path and it was even
38:23
to accept it. And in a way my husband's disease and
38:27
everything that happened and his treatment gave me kind of more peace
38:32
of mind with that decision.
38:34
It also took a lot of pressure out of us as a
38:37
couple because nobody was wondering,
38:40
I've been with my husband for 17 years.
38:45
people are like, ok,
38:46
so when I have a and,
38:47
and people are, you know,
38:49
are they asked that with good intentions and love,
38:53
but that, that feels,
38:56
you know, implicitly as pressure but well,
38:59
not necessarily pressure, but it's just like the way things are
39:02
and the moment my husband got sick,
39:04
nobody ever asked that again.
39:05
So it like kind of took the pressure off.
39:08
I was focused on something else and,
39:11
and yeah, so now we've decided we're not having Children.
39:14
And I feel very at peace with that decision and we
39:19
feel very grateful for your vulnerability,
39:21
telling your personal story and giving permission to other Latinas to make
39:26
peace with their decisions and understand that life threatening situations,
39:31
life and death situations can actually help you understand your real value
39:35
and what you're capable of.
39:37
No, thank you guys for listening.
39:39
So you've gone through a lot,
39:41
especially in the past four years and it sounds like you've gained
39:45
a lot of perspective.
39:47
So if there was a time machine,
39:50
a phone, time machine and you could call ELISA in her
39:53
early thirties to tell her something else besides what you just told
39:57
us about. I'm sure you would tell her,
39:59
don't, don't feel like an impostor risk,
40:02
take more risks and they put things in perspective.
40:06
What, what else would you tell her?
40:08
I would say you are capable as I think that's what I
40:12
would do. You doubt yourself when you were?
40:13
Yeah, I think there was a lot of self doubt and
40:16
that meant that I was more guarded,
40:20
more risk averse. I think all of that are symptoms of
40:25
that lack of, of self confidence.
40:27
So that's what I would say you are capable and in
40:30
fact going to my husband's treatment,
40:34
a doctor that was very helpful to me.
40:38
kinda, in my early twenties,
40:40
she's someone that has a very,
40:42
kinda eastern philosophy background and a Buddhist background.
40:45
But anyway, I don't wanna get into the specifics.
40:47
But when my husband's situation happened,
40:50
I really had the striking contrast because I called one of my
40:55
like from the hospital.
40:56
And the minute, you know,
40:57
the moment that this diagnosis happened was,
41:00
which was literally catastrophic.
41:02
And, and she's like,
41:04
I don't know how you're gonna do it.
41:06
I don't think you can do it.
41:07
I think is what she said,
41:09
but not, not saying it in a,
41:12
But it's like in a way of recognizing how hard it was
41:18
I don't think I can do it.
41:21
it's so hard. And then through,
41:24
through someone, this doctor that had this kind of philosophy told
41:30
my, my sister in law to tell me,
41:34
tell a Lisa that she has been working all her life to
41:39
be prepared for this,
41:40
that she's ready. And that was such an important message to
41:47
She's like, tell her that she has been all of her
41:51
life. She's been working towards this moment that she is prepared
41:55
that she has all the skills,
41:57
all the tools he she needs.
42:00
yes and I'm just gonna,
42:03
yeah, I'm gonna do it.
42:04
So what about if we take the time machine?
42:07
we bring it forward like 20 years from now,
42:11
Yeah. Yeah. How is Eliza?
42:15
look, I'm, I feel so privileged of where I am
42:18
right now because I have the life experience of someone that is
42:26
but I'm in my early forties.
42:28
So I have, you know,
42:30
all my life ahead of me.
42:31
But and I'm not going to be modest here with a
42:35
lot of wisdom and a lot of life experience on my
42:38
back. So I really hope that me in 20 years,
42:42
I've been able to build the place that I want to work
42:45
with that I'm experiencing joy,
42:48
which is such an important thing.
42:50
I love the place that I work at.
42:52
I love the people that I work with.
42:54
And in 20 years from now,
42:55
I'm, I, I hope I'm one of the leaders of
42:57
the firm and I'm bringing it forward into the next 200 years
43:01
on the, on the professional side that I have a team
43:03
that I value, that values me,
43:06
that works those 2000 hours with joy that bring all of them
43:11
to their work that have integrated life and work.
43:15
And on the personal side,
43:17
I mean, I look forward to a very long life with
43:19
my husband who I adore and my two dogs.
43:22
But I really, I really wanna continue on and live the
43:26
rest of my life with kind of living the lessons that I've
43:31
worked very hard to,
43:35
I wanna kind of continue being mindful of those and just applying
43:38
them to my life and work.
43:39
So here here to the next and the,
43:42
the CEO, the Latina Ceo of our global legal firm.
43:49
So, so very much for coming with us and talking.
43:53
Thank you Cynthia. It was,
43:54
it was amazing. Thank you.
43:56
And with your leadership and expertise,
43:57
we're going to be able to lead and succeed.
Series